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Introduction

Character voice can make or break a manuscript. And a lot of times, as writers we’re trying to imitate what we see commonly in the genre. Maybe that means moody, angry, or short-tempered characters that fit the tone of our work.

But it’s sometimes interesting to flip the script on readers as a way to provide a unique voice.

That’s what James Byrne did in his Desmond Limerick novels. And I got the opportunity to ask him about how he develops unique character voices by ignoring common conventions.

James is the author of a dozen novels. And, most recently, the second novel in his Desmond Limerick series, which is called DEADLOCK.

We talk about so much more than just unique character voice. He also shares about why a top editor told him he needed a prologue, and he gives us his a unique writing process for writing books really fast. All that plus more on this episode of Thriller 101.

Interview

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Topics

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Clips

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Biography

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Transcript

T101-James Byrne

James Byrne: [00:00:00] I am not a person with a lot of. Hobbies. I don’t actually, I’m not one who does a lot of hobbies, but writing fiction is really incredibly fun. So for me, any day that I don’t do a little bit of work, I was in the waiting room waiting to get on this, this podcast and was working on a scene because if I, if I’ve got five minutes free, you know, I ought to be writing.

David Gwyn: Character voice can make or break a manuscript. And a lot of times as writers, we’re trying to imitate what we commonly see in the genre. Maybe that means moody, angry or short tempered characters that fit the tone of our work. But it’s sometimes interesting to flip the script on readers as a way to create a unique character voice. That’s what James Byrne did in his Desmond Limerick novels. And I got the opportunity to ask him about how he develops unique character voices by ignoring common conventions. 

I’m David Gwen an agented writer navigating the world of publishing during this first season of the Thriller 101 podcast. We’re going to focus on building the skills [00:01:00] necessary to write the kinds of stories that land you an agent, and eventually readers. I’m talking to agents and authors about the best way to write a novel. If you want the experts secrets, this is where you’re going to find them. Today’s guest is James Byrne, the author of a dozen novels, and most recently the second novel in his Desmond Limerick series. 

This newest installment is called deadlock. 

And I highly suggest you check it out. 

James. And I talk about so much more than just unique character voice. He also shares the story of why a top editor told him he needed a prologue and gives us his unique writing process for writing his books really fast, all that, and so much more on this episode of Thriller 101. Let’s get straight to it. 

James, welcome to the interview series. Thanks so much for being here. 

James Byrne: I I am honored. This is gonna be fun. 

David Gwyn: Yeah. I’m really looking forward to it. So your newest novel Deadlock, which will be out by the time people hear this, so I wanna be one of the first people to say congratulations.

Can you tell us what it’s about? 

James Byrne: This is the second book in the Dez Limerick series. Limerick is a, is a guy who’s retired at age [00:02:00] 35 from a military and international military. I don’t see which one, although I hinted which one. And he’s traveling around the states with a guitar picking up musical gigs, having fun, enjoying life.

A mate calls him and says that her sister’s in trouble. Her sister was mugged and is hospitalized in Portland, Oregon. Dez being Dez he hops up first flight he can from LA to. To Portland to to be there with her, and they run into a conspiracy that involves the Witness Protection Program, the US Marshal Service, the Drug Enforcement Administration, and this multinational.

Company that’s based here in Portland, and again, Dez being and Dez, he gets involved with stuff that ain’t none of his business. And that’s, we, you have act two. 

David Gwyn: I, yeah, I highly recommend people check out this book. Such a fun read really unique voice Dez And so I do wanna talk a little bit about that.

We, we’ll get to that in a little bit, but where did the idea, like, like you mentioned, it’s the second story in, in this in the series. The first one was the gatekeeper, which came out I think last year. Right. Yeah. So where did this idea come from? Did you always know it was gonna be a 

James Byrne: series? Couple of things.[00:03:00]

Keith Kahla is the editor at St. Martin’s Press and he’s kind of a famous editor. He’s like probably the best in the business of the mystery thriller realm. And he asked my literary agent, Janet Reid, if I had a first person male protagonist action venture novel in my hip pocket. Because grand majority of my other books have been like ensemble protagonist or partner protagonist.

I work, but have it. I did. I had an idea, so I started working on this for him. And I love the genre, I love Lee Child, I love Greg Hurwitz, Meg Gardner mark Granny. All those guys are, this is just amazing, but I wanted to be able to say something unique. I wanted my guy to stand out somehow, and it took me the long time to figure how to do it.

And finally came up with two things. One is making him from the United Kingdom. I thought that would be different. And he has absolutely zero angst. He is not, he’s not grumpy. He’s not mad at the world he acts against to be the luckiest bloke on the planet, and he’s just in a really good mood. He’s not nearly as funny as he thinks he is.

Things that he thinks are hilarious and Americans don’t understand. Everybody makes fun of [00:04:00] his, his name Desmond. A Limerick is such an over.

Sure. I mean, he’s built like a tank and he, he’s really good in a fight. He really knows his way around. Military endeavors, but he also just is a happy-go-lucky dude. And I just had not read that before, so I thought, well, that could be a blast. 

David Gwyn: Yeah, I mean, the voice is the first thing that really I think hits and, and it feels different than, than a lot of stuff that’s happening in, in the genre right now in terms of voice.

Were you planning. Always to have multiple books. I mean, are you working on another one? Is, is this something that you, imagined when you started like, okay, Desmond, I need to create a character who’s got multiple acts, or did you just kind of dive right in with that first book and then really found his voice just kind of lingering?

James Byrne: I got super lucky. I, I got this and sent it off to Keith at, at St. Martin’s Press, Minotaur, and Keith played with it a bit and wanted some changes. He’s, he’s just dead brilliant. He makes me a better writer. Nice. It’s not true every editor, but he does. So I made the changes he wanted and then they, they said, okay, well we, we’ll make a two book.

Offer for this, which I [00:05:00] over the moon about. So I did that. Then the first book came out and the sales were strong enough last year. They said, okay, let’s do a second two book contract. So he has book three in his hands now and that’s gonna come out in 2024. And I haven’t started book four, which comes out in 2025.

I’m really excited ’cause I have to tell you. And I’ve had a dozen books out. This is the most fun character to write. I mean, if I’m smart enough to get outta the way he writes his own dialogue, if I just shut up and sit down he’s so much fun. So yeah, I, I’ll write these until Keith and I are are in a retirement home.

David Gwyn: That’s awesome. And I, you could see it, I feel like it, it comes across on the page, this like, Desmond feels very alive as a character. So let’s go back a little bit and, and talk about how you got started writing. Did you always know you wanted to be a writer? 

James Byrne: I. Always my dad was a huge fan of mysteries and thrillers and, and dad, high school basketball coach would would read stuff and then bring it to us kids and say, you gotta read this high school basketball coach.

That’s the voice they all use.[00:06:00] And so early on I did. And then secondly, I was, as I was and am a collector of comic books, started Marvel and in DC and I learned a lot about action and adventure storytelling from what I consider to be the master storytellers of the 20th century, which was comic book writers.

So I always knew I wanted to, and so I wrote a book Stupidly while I was a student at a community college here in Oregon City, Oregon. And by sheer luck got that one published. So I was 20 when my first book came out. Wow. There were a few of those and then there was a long down period of dry period where I couldn’t sell hardly anything at all.

And then eventually sold Crashers to St. Martin’s Press. They did four of my books. Then I did a three book trilogy for a company called Blackstone Publishing. Really, really terrific folks. And that ended in this January, that was the last of those, and then the Dez books picked up. So I have two passions in life.

And when I was 20 years old, I knew I wanted to be a. Either a journalist or a novelist. And today I am both a working [00:07:00] journalist and a novelist. I’m the luckiest guy in the planet and I live in Portland, Oregon, which is like adore this planet. And I’m married to a woman who’s both hot and smarter than I’m so easy.

I mean, it’s just like I’m the luckiest guy in the world. 

David Gwyn: So let me ask you, what, what is it you think. You obviously, you, you set some goals for yourself in terms writing. Is there something growing up, was there a moment that it clicked that you were like, wait, I can do this.

Like this is a thing that I can do and, and now I just need to, to put my button in the seat and, and get to work on it? 

James Byrne: Yeah. The couple of things. One is I am not a person with a lot of. Hobbies. I don’t actually, I’m not one who does a lot of hobbies, but writing fiction is really incredibly fun. So for me, any day that I don’t do a little bit of work, I was in the waiting room waiting to get on this, this podcast and was working on a scene because if I, if I’ve got five minutes free, you know, I ought to be writing.

The second thing for me was that before I. I did journalism. I was in theater. I did a lot of high school, college [00:08:00] and amateur theater, which really taught me a lot about the blocking and staging of scenes. And then third, I’m a print journalist and we don’t have. Writer’s block in print journalism.

We don’t call it writer’s block, we call it unemployment. We went to the school board meeting and came back and said to your editor, the muse is not with me today. They would simply replace you with a 20 year old. So anybody who’s in journalism who tries fiction writing, we’re all really fast.

I can write the first draft of a book in three months, which is remarkably faster than a lot of my cohorts. So it’s something that’s fun to do. Something I found I’m good at. And I am my own first reader. I only write stories that are gonna entertain me. And if I’m not being entertained, if I get 30 pages into a book, I’m thinking, you know what?

I gotta go home and write chapter seven and clean out the cat box and, do the laundry. I’m in trouble. And I realize because you become a chore, stop that book. Throw it away. Start a new one, because that one just wasn’t, just wasn’t happening. 

David Gwyn: So what is your, your process like?

I mean, like you mentioned you’re flying through first drafts in three months. Are are you [00:09:00] somebody who plans or plots or are you just, you’ve got a sense of character and you run with it? 

James Byrne: First weird thing about me is that I write longhand in a steno pad. And I do that in the mornings, then go do my day job.

And then in the evening, I translate it into my computer. So in the morning I’m needing the creative half of my brain to write something. And then in the evening I use the, analytical side of my brain. And I can say right away that day, boy that worked. That was pretty good stuff. Or, oh my God, what the hell is wrong with me?

Was I crack? This mornings terrible? And so I can do instant analysis and say, no, that was no good. I’m gonna get rid of that. It didn’t carry the freight it needed to. So that process, that iterative process for me is why I am. Is why I’m pretty fast. I do not do a lot of plotting. I also think in three acts because I’m a theater dude, so I know usually the plot point for Act one, and I know the big plot point for Act two, and then I don’t know how the books end.

And so I just mostly I come up with characters I’m really excited about and then a scenario that I’m really excited about. And then I’ll just see where it takes me. 

David Gwyn: That’s really [00:10:00] interesting. So I, I wanna shift gears slightly and I wanna talk about your literary agent Janet Reid.

I always like to ask authors on here to give their agent a little bit of a shout out. People behind the, behind the scenes sometimes. So you’re up by Janet Reed, which I, which you mentioned, and at Jet Reed Literary. So, what’s so great about working with Janet? 

James Byrne: Two about three or four things.

But first a funny story when I needed a, I’d written Crashers, it was about 2009, and I was looking for literary representation. I started sending off query letters to New York, and, you know, which is a hard thing to, it’s really hard to find a literary agent. So I was just firing these things off three a week for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks.

And one of them called me and she said, Your Dana Hayes, because that’s the other name I write under, and I said, yes. And she said, is there any chance that you were the editor of the Westland Tidings in Westland, Oregon? Because I used to live there and I recognized your name and I hated your paper. You all look at your manuscript.

So that was our introduction. She had moved to New York City, but at one point she’d lived in Westland and she’d gotten my stupid little weekly newspaper, which she thought was crap. She might not be wrong. I’m [00:11:00] not their analysis of my paper. And anyway, if anybody tells you that there’s no luck involved in the publishing world, they’re just lying to luck is a huge pactor in this case.

She recognized my name enough from the slush , said, yeah, I’ll look at your manuscript. And it was Crashers and she had it sold. Four months later as a two book deal, St. Martin’s, and I’ve been with her ever since. The thing about Janet is, the thing about any literary agent is, is they’re, they’re much like a lawyer.

You don’t want a best buddy or a friend. You’re looking for somebody you’re with, with whom you’re in a business contract. She has, she and I have a business relationship. She knows everyone. If I write a book, She doesn’t say, oh, this is interesting, I should shop it around. She says, you know, there’s this one editor this’s one house who will really like that I was with Blackstone Publishing for three books.

She said, oh, I have the editor who will love this thing, what you’ve done. Let me send it to her. And she just has that, that businesslike focus. We rarely get on the phone to chat and schmooze and say, how’s your day? Or what, what about them Yankees? That’s not what we do.

What we do is she says, [00:12:00] Here’s the three things I need you to do this week. I need you to write a newsletter and think about a short story. And, and I’m like, I salute smartly. I’m a good soldier. I’ll do it. And so she’s great. She just knows everyone. She works her tail off and it’s that knowledge base that she’s got that I don’t, she has a skillset that’s not mine.

So that’s why this business relationship has worked since 2010, and I am fortunate as hell to have her. 

David Gwyn: Hey, I want to take a quick pause there. I hope you’re enjoying this episode with James Byrne. I loved how he shared about his background and his unique writing style. 

In fact, I liked it so much. I gave it a try. But more on that a little bit later

 We have so much more to talk about, but I want to pause here because if you’re a querying author, you may have heard that I’m doing a unique pitching contest where you can send in a brief summary of your story and the first 250 to 500 words. And I’m going to put your work in front of agents. So far more than 10 agents have agreed to review submissions, which means agents who are [00:13:00] actively looking for a writer, just like you. Now I’m not currently accepting submissions. However, if you want to be notified when submissions open again, be sure to sign up in the link in the description for this episode. In the next part of the interview, James and I will talk about how he came up with the voice for his main character, why he likes using strong female characters and a lot more about what he thinks about writing. There’s a ton of insightful stuff here. So let’s get right back to that interview.

So let’s, let’s dive into Deadlock here, and let’s talk a little bit about character and kind of the, the opening here, the, the introduction or the reintroduction to Dez for people who, who read the first book.

So like I mentioned, one of the first things that struck me with this, with your writing and especially with with Dez’s character, is just this unique voice. This like, playful, happy, go lucky, like laid back even in the most tense situations. And I’m wondering, I mean you mentioned some authors who you’ve read in this genre who, who write characters that are very different than Dez and Right.

Are, are kind of like typical of the crime [00:14:00] protagonist. So what was it about Dez’s voice? Were you searching for it or did you just kind of find it and, and thought like, this would be a great voice for this genre? 

James Byrne: In an earlier draft, he was from Texas, then he was from New York. He was. 25. He was 55. He was an ex-cop, he was an ex criminal.

He had lots of different names. And it was the day that realized he had a British accent it clicked. And this, I sometimes think of this as the Rumpelstiltskin effect. You have to have the right name for your character. And, I really wanted a name that wasn’t, you know, you, you read these, this genre, there’s a lot of Jacks and Jakes and.

Johns, you know, and there’s a whole bunch of names that you, that get repeated and I wanted to name no one else was using. And I came up with this completely over the top, ridiculous name. Desmond Aloyisius Limerick. And then I realized he was from England. And then I thought, will it be sort of fun if he’s just.

Talks too much. He’s just, he’s just loquacious. He just chats and chats and chats and chats until like when police officers are speaking to him and finally they say, will [00:15:00] you shut up? Told me more than I needed to know. So that was the first thing I thought was just make this guy loquacious.

He just, he just blathers. Second thing I wanted to do word this carefully ’cause I’m not sure about your audience. I really wanted to character who, when. They have the opportunity for sex with a woman is uncool. He lacks any cool whatsoever. He’s instantly 15 years old and the opportunity to have sex, he’s like, oh, that would be great.

We do. He’s the least cool protagonist. Around sex I’ve ever read in one of these things. He’s the anti James Bond. Yeah. Yeah. And so that was super fun to do. ’cause I just didn’t, never seen it before. And all told, once I had the name and I had that he was English and I had that he was loquacious, then the voice came like fast.

Hmm. 

David Gwyn: And so is that, is that something that happened? During a first draft, like, like you mentioned, you, you write that first draft pretty quickly. I mean, is that something that you just had a couple false starts until you found the voice and then it ran? Or is that something you’re, you’re kind of backtracking and then filling 

James Byrne: in?

I did drafts when he was other [00:16:00] guys including pretty laconic guys and pretty angsty guys. And I kept thinking, yeah, you know, I gotta be honest with you mark Granny’s doing this better than I am. Petri, Nick. Petri does this better than I do. Greg Herwitz says this better than I do. I can’t do what they do and I’m not as.

Better than them in that. So I gotta, this guy’s gotta be different. And so once I figured out that voice, and it was like in a very, very early draft of it was the very first time we meet Dez in modern time and he’s in Los Angeles and he foils a kidnapping.

 That was the first scene I ever wrote. And I thought, boy, this guy’s a lot of fun. This is great. I wanna see what happens next. And then there was a scene where he was talking to the police officers and he just, they couldn’t get him to shut up. he visits a lot of interrogation rooms in these books because that’s his, his lifestyle.

And then, boy, it started to flow really fast from that scene on

David Gwyn: I’m wondering about the opening scene here, your, your prologue where you kind of introduce us to Desmond in deadlock or like I mentioned, reintroduce us if, if we’ve read the, the first novel.

What was your [00:17:00] goal with that scene? I mean, was it a mixture of action, voice plot, backstory? Like what, what were you thinking about as you were using that prologue to bring readers into the story? 

James Byrne: Very funny story. Keith, Kahla read the first draft of deadlock and then said to me, Hey, I think you need a prologue back in his military days.

And I was like, I’ve never had an editor who told me they want a prologue. I’ve only had editors who nixed my prologues. I said, really? Yeah, I think you do. So I said, I’ll do that. So having done one for the first book, I made the decision to do one for the second book out of a sense of continuity, and then, That helped me establish kind of one of my rhythms that I’m gonna have in these books, which is in book A, we’re introduced to a character who has a pivotal plot point in book B.

So in book A we we meet the, the young musician the singer songwriter for whom he goes up to Portland to rescue the sister we also meet in that prologue, a British spy. He’s gonna run into her later in this book [00:18:00] and then in book three as well. So I’m using the, I’m using characters I’ve introduced to leapfrog the stories.

You don’t have to read them in order. But it didn’t hurt to read ’em in order. There were a couple of things I need to establish in this prologue. The assumption that you had not read the first book. So I wanted to establish that he has this military background, that he has this technological background.

He is a breach expert. He’s the guy who can open any door. For his unit, keep it open as long necessary, and control who does and does not go through it. That’s, that’s what a gatekeeper is in this fictional realm I’ve created. He’s a breach expert, so I need to, wanted to establish that. Third, I wanna establish that he’s a jackass.

He just does, he, he will make fun of authority and, and rip on people if he thinks they need to be ripped upon, and that he’s capable of making very decisive decisions and he, when necessary, he can be ruthless. Hmm. Not a, he is not angsty, but he’s capable of being ruthless, which was a weird juxtaposition had.

So those are the things I need, I thought, I thought I really needed to establish in this one. I have written a prologue for the third book as well, and I’m hoping against hope that it does the same thing. It sets up who he [00:19:00] is so I can move him into modern times. 

David Gwyn: Yeah. I thought it was such an interesting.

I, I thought it was just a well done move. And one that I think, like you mentioned, you know, brings readers in. If you didn’t read the first novel, you’re right in with Dez. It doesn’t really matter. You get to understand his character, you know a lot about him, and it’s like a really fun action sequence.

And I think as readers, I, if you’re thinking about picking up this book, if you’re listening right now and you’re like, this sounds like my kind of thing, like. Pick it up, read the prologue, you will immediately fall in love with his character and the story, and you’ll just, you’ll wanna just keep reading.

So yeah, I, I can’t speak highly enough about it. It’s funny you mentioned about the prologues and which is kind of why I wanted to ask, because prologues are this really hit or miss thing. And I think when done well, it, it serves a function. And it has to serve a function. Otherwise it’s, it’s cut.

But I think it’s just, so I, that’s why I had to ask about the prologue. I was like, Where was that decision happening along the way? 

James Byrne: Keith is brilliant. Keith said we need to know a lot about Dez before he does the [00:20:00] kidnapping scene in, in act one. I need, we folks need to know why he, why he’s as good as he is in that scene.

So that’s why Keith wanted that and he’s just dead. Brilliant. And the other thing that allowed me to do as, I’m pretty sure you’ve noticed is I have a lot of strong female protagonists and both of the prologues allowed me to bring a female protagonist. Into the four and establish that. One of the things I did in the first book the gatekeeper was there’s this woman named Petra Alexandra, and she’s the chief legal counsel for a multinational, and des rescues her in Act one, but Petra rescues Petra in Act three.

I needed her. To save her company and her own skin because it just, it felt wrong for her to be a damsel in distress. And the, there’s a little of that going on in, in book two. There’s several female protagonists. De rescue a few people, but there are people who. Rescue him as well. So that’s one of those things I wanted to establish early on was that the presence of, of female protagonists.

David Gwyn: Yeah. And I’m, I’m [00:21:00] curious a little bit about that, and I know like you mentioned, you write these like strong female characters in your novel and, and for a genre that is largely read by, by men or like that kind of action crime genre, I’m, I’m curious why. I think it works and I think it’s beautifully done, and I think it’s something that Desmond’s character plays off really well because he’s not this like hyper masculine macho guy.

And so I’m curious where along the process where you like, I need stronger female characters. I need you know, women who maybe read this book see themselves as, as the heroes of, of them, of their own stories. I think that’s really interesting and something I don’t al we don’t always see in crime fiction.

I’m curious where that process happened for you. The strong 

James Byrne: female protagonists have been in all of my books, so I write that to begin with. And I had some books at St. Martin’s earlier in which the primary protagonist was a woman. So I have written female protagonist as as well. And for me it was, and you [00:22:00] really touched on it well, I wanted this guy to be big and strong and really good in a fight and really know his way around military situations.

But I didn’t want any kind of toxic masculinity because as a reader, that turns me off. Really fast. And so pitting him with women who more than hold their own. Let me, it’s a little bit like cooking and sometimes when you’re making something savory and you add sugar to it, the sugar doesn’t make it sweeter.

It makes all the savory stuff work better. The strong females leaven, what could be a little bit toxic about his abilities and his fight and his physical strength. So that’s, that’s why it just works so well for me.

David Gwyn: Yeah. That’s cool. So my, my last question for you is just where can people find you? Where can people look you up? 

James Byrne: James Byrne Thriller and by is b y r n e, James byrne thriller.com. And I’m also on the Min, the Minard St. Martin’s and McMillan websites as well. And I’m so glad to be with them.

They’re just an awesome company, great, great people to work with, and just, I’m blessed. . 

David Gwyn: And if you’re listening and you [00:23:00] wanna check out more of, of James’s stuff, I’ll link to his website so you have quick access to it in, in the notes for this, for this episode. So James, this has been awesome.

I’ve had so much fun. I, I really learned a lot and, and I can’t stress enough people gotta go check out. Deadlock, this is a, just a great, great story. So thanks 

James Byrne: so much for being here. 

This was way fun. Thank you so much. 

David Gwyn: So how can we as writers flip the conventions of the genre in a way that makes our story unique, can you change the voice of a character or the setting? For this week’s five minute writer. I tried. James’s writing routine for a week. I’ll share what I loved about it and what I didn’t. 

If you haven’t signed up for five minute writer yet, or don’t know what it is. 

 It’s a series I do where I share fast writing advice that takes about five minutes to consume and will help you improve as a writer. There’s a link in the description of this episode to sign up. Also down there, there’s a link to sign up, to be notified when submissions reopened for the agent pitch contest. Don’t miss this special opportunity. Next week is our first agent episode. 

Carleen Geisler: What I wanna see in a manuscript a lot of the time is [00:24:00] some sort of balance.

It, it can be the balance between action and. Character building. It can be the, the balance between dialogue and tone, , but there has to be something, it can’t just be flat. 

David Gwyn: So be sure to check that out. 

You won’t want to miss it because someone’s getting a full request. I’ll see you next week.