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🗓 Previously…

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🎙 Interview

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📇 Biography

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📜 Transcript

Timothy Hedden

Timothy Hedden

David Gwyn: [00:00:00] Timothy, you spent years working in reality television, and now you’ve turned that world into The Dead Housewives of Philadelphia. What did you see behind the scenes that made you think that there

Timothy Hedden: plug

David Gwyn: there was a novel in this?

Timothy Hedden: So, I mean, to be quite honest, I, um, I came up with the title first. I was writing my first novel, which was “The West 15 Street Murders” which is still living in, uh, cobwebs in my computer. Um, and I had heard an author on a podcast talking about she had just got a, a two-book deal, and I was like, “A two-book deal?”

Like, I was like, “What am I gonna do if I get a two-book deal?” And I was like, the, the first words that came into my head were “The Dead Housewives of Philadelphia.” So, I came up with the title first. I put it away until I was done writing that book, and then I started writing it. And, um, you know, I, um, you know, reality TV is all about human manipulation.

Like, we all just have to know that by now you know? It’s been, it’s been around for a long time. So, um, so I’ve been a party to, and I’ve [00:01:00] participated in, uh, in the field and in an edit suite in a little human manipulation. And

someone showed me some footage of something that happened, um, that I thought was really horrible, and I never forgot it. So, like, when I started writing the book, I was like, “I’m definitely putting that in.” So that’s sort of the inciting incident of, of my book. Um, and, uh, there’s, you know, there’s a lot of other behind the scenes stuff, you know, just stories that, uh, the characters tell.

Um, yeah, so I just feel like there are, there are probably 20 reality TV novels out there now, and none of them are told from behind the scenes. They’re all told from a contestant’s point of view. So, I think that’s gonna work in my favor, that it’s finally gonna, you know, you’re finally gonna see what happens, you know, when the lines blur, when an executive wants to blur the lines of reality, you know, what it can be dangerous for, or, you know, destructive for the humans that, that it happens to, so.

[00:02:00] I’ll never work in reality TV again, obviously.

David Gwyn: you go. Well, listen,

Timothy Hedden: But

David Gwyn: we’ve teased it long enough. So, so tell people who aren’t familiar with you what, what is this book about?

Timothy Hedden: So I worked on three Real Housewives franchises, and so this book, uh, is takes place on the set of a fictionalized version of that kind of a show, and it’s called The Diva Housewives of Philadelphia. And it follows Bailey, she’s our protagonist, and, uh, last season she had to do something that, um, for a ratings, for ratings, the network, uh, demanded that she do this, uh, ratings stunt, and it went horribly wrong, and the diva that she did it to was, like, the most beloved diva of all times.

And, um, it, it, it all went bad and she ended up, um, the diva ended up breaking a security guard’s face and ending up in a psych ward and then in rehab. And so when the book opens, it’s the first day of, uh, shooting for season 10, and the, the producer, whose name is Bailey, [00:03:00] she has sort of created this world of like, you know, cat fights and, you know, meltdowns and, you know, she sort of perfected it.

She created it, and she never feels guilt about having to manipulate these women, and now all of the sudden for the past six months since that happened, she’s really dealing with a lot of shame about what she had to do to this woman. So that’s how it opens. And, um, and then when all of the divas start dying, you know, there, it’s a, it’s an, it’s sort of a rush as to like, who is it?

Is the diva that, you know, went crazy last year, is she the one doing it to get revenge? the first diva that we meet is Erin, and she has photos of another diva’s husband kissing a man, so, like, is it that, the wife, is it that diva trying to kill the… ‘Cause Erin’s the first one that dies, so, you know, Bailey shows up on the first day of shooting to, to shoot her, and she’s already dead.

So, um, to film her, sorry, don’t wanna confuse people. She’s not gonna shoot her. She’s there to film her.

David Gwyn: Yeah, a

Timothy Hedden: Uh, yeah, and then

David Gwyn: early [00:04:00] on

Timothy Hedden: so all hell breaks loose. And then, you know, like one of my favorite scenes is there’s a, there’s a meeting, um, between the network head and the owner of the production company, uh, as of what to do and how to move forward, and that’s really as behind, that’s as raw behind-the-scenes as you’re gonna get.

You know, it’s, it’s the me- it’s how the mechanics work. How do you, how do you take this horrible situation and make it work? So they end up having a seance with a psychic named Madam Lola, and it’s just, it’s real- it’s one of my favor- that’s one of my favorite scenes too, ’cause it’s fun.

David Gwyn: Very cool. That’s

Timothy Hedden: So

David Gwyn: I, I feel like people who are listening to this, not only do they get the kind of, the plot lines, but they also get kind of, I feel like, the vibe that you’re going for, which I think is really great. And the way that you… I’ve always explained this book is, is you really hit it from, like, this, the two angles of, uh, your, your experience, right?

As a, as somebody who’s been in that world, um, but also in something that you’re so much attention [00:05:00] to, like, character and to plot development, and I, I really, I have always appreciated that about, about the work that you do. And, you know, we met initially, you, you were part of the Storytellers Society, the group that we ran here through Thriller 101. Um, I’d love to hear a little bit about where you were when you started this process. And when we, when we started at, uh, Storytellers Society, I think you had… You weren’t quite done with it. Am I right about that? And then, so from there to now, like, talk, talk me through what that process was

Timothy Hedden: Yeah, and I really just wanna say that I hope you’re doing another Storyteller Society for, for emerging writers, because I have to tell you that I would not have, have been able to write this book without you and without the society that you created and all of the, just the people in the, the world that, you know, we were all a part of for almost two years.

Just the support, the being able to reach out, the meetings, the Zoom meetings, the catch-ups, every little… You had all these exercises to do. It was really, really [00:06:00] so instrumental in getting this book done.

David Gwyn: I’m glad

Timothy Hedden: so yeah, so when I met you, I don’t even know where… I think I was, um, in the first draft of the book and, um, and then I sent it to a developmental editor, and she told me to rewrite the whole thing, and so that took after…

That, it took me two and a half years to write it, and then it was another six to eight months to rewrite it. Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I thank you so much because it was just, it just… You know, I didn’t really… You know, I started writing late in life. I was, I’m 62. I was 57 when I started writing, so it’s not like, you know, like I didn’t go to college for this or…

I just didn’t feel a part of the world, and then, you know, to, to be part of Thriller 101, it was just, you know, I just felt like a writer and everybody was talking writer stuff, you know. My husband got bored with it after a while, you know. Like, he’s like, “I know, I know this one. Ah, whatever.” Like, you know, it was just like,

David Gwyn: everyone’s

Timothy Hedden: do you think it’s clever?”

You know.

David Gwyn: everyone needs that community.[00:07:00]

Timothy Hedden: Yeah,

David Gwyn: I’m really– And I, I feel really

honored to be a, a part of your journey, which,

Timothy Hedden: It was really, really important. And one of the, one of the most important things for me was, if you remember that first round of, uh, Zoom pitches that we did,

David Gwyn: Mm-hmm

Timothy Hedden: and I came in so hot, David. I was so sure. I mean, I don’t know why I couldn’t sell this to an agent. It is a housewives murder mystery written by a housewives editor, filled with behind the scene…

Like, I, I was so obnoxious to the other, to my fellow Thriller 101ers, that I was like, “This is just practice for me. These women are gonna be lining up. These agents are gonna fight for it.” And after that first pitch meeting, I only got one request, and I was broken. I was broken by it. And everybody rallied ’round me and told me to just keep going.

It was, I, it, it was just so shocking for me [00:08:00] that an agent wouldn’t want any part of this. And, um, and it was, it was devas- I was devastated. But having that community around me, and the fact that I… I mean, I wasn’t offensive to anybody, but I’m sure I was just a little overbearing, you know, with

David Gwyn: were

Timothy Hedden: gonna have a

David Gwyn: appreciate. I think you have to be. To be a writer, you have to think confidently to the degree that you’re like, “Someone wants to sit and spend eight hours reading something that I wrote.” Like, that’s– You have to have confidence, and I, I,

Timothy Hedden: Yeah.

David Gwyn: always loved that about you. Like, confident, which I think is great.

Which is, which

Timothy Hedden: And

David Gwyn: here too, right? I mean,

Timothy Hedden: I guess, yeah

David Gwyn: in your hands, like, in a matter of days here. People are gonna be able to buy your book. I think that’s the coolest thing in the world. I know. the

Timothy Hedden: So yeah, I, um, I was really devastated. And then, you know, I continued to query and then it was… I, I must have queried 45 to 50 agents and I got two requests. My other novel, I queried 40 agents and got 13 requests. So the fact that nobody wanted this, [00:09:00] I feel like this is just gonna be so c- it’s just so commercial.

It’s, it’s real, like, Real Housewives fans. Like, I d- I just don’t understand why no agent wanted any part of it. But anyway, whatever. So here I am, I’ve, I figured out how to self-publish it. I had to learn Vellum. Uh, you know, that was a whole learning curve, you know, ’cause I’m just… It was, I didn’t think I could do it, and then I hired somebody on Fiverr and, you know, there was a huge language barrier.

And the guy, when he gave me the, when he gave me the manuscript, it looked like a how-to manual for, like, like, how to build an iPhone. Like, each chapter had this long bar with a rounded bottom with, like, 01. And so, like, there was this much space for the first page of the chapter. Um, and it was, like, written in some ridiculous font that you would never see in a book, but literally like a manual, like, just all square font.

And I was like, “Oh my God, what am I gonna do?” And then I tried to find somebody else who could do it, and they were gonna charge me another… So that was $225 down the drain. And then [00:10:00] they– I found somebody else who would, you know, format it for me, and it was $250, and I was like, “That’s how much Vellum costs.”

Like, I just need to bite the bullet and do it myself. And so that was another huge…

David Gwyn: Yeah

Timothy Hedden: You know, I was afraid of Vellum. I was afraid that I wouldn’t do it right, and Vellum, if you’re, if any of your listeners are thinking about getting it, it is so user-friendly. It is so simple. I’m so upset that I wasted the first $225 on that gentleman.

Um, uh, it’s really, really easy, and the fact that now I can ch- make changes myself and I’m not beholden to somebody else who has the manuscript and the will to do it, or the kn- you know, the know-how to do it. So, uh, that was a huge… I think everybody who is, um, you know, gonna self-publish needs… There’s another one, too, I can’t think of the name of it right now, but, like, if you have a Mac or if you have a PC, there are

David Gwyn: different versions.

Timothy Hedden: uh, programs, and you should really learn them because it will save you a lot of money and it g- it, it gives you the power of doing whatever you need to do[00:11:00]

David Gwyn: Yeah, it’s so cool. You know, I, uh, listening to you talk about how you kind of navigated this, I remember when I started this podcast and, and I really focused a lot on traditional publishing ’cause it felt like at that time, m- only way to publish. And now I feel like even in just these few years, like, self-publishing and indie publishing has made it so that writers like yourself who have a book with a great premise and great writing, y- you get the opportunity to publish and get the book out there, and it’s just as valid as any other type.

And I feel like that that’s happened a lot in the last c- few years, and that’s really this season, this new season of the Thriller 101 Podcast. I wanna highlight different ways of publishing because I feel like now, like you’re saying, that there are programs out there, they’re user-friendly. If you want your book out into the world, go put it out into the world.

Like, you don’t

need to wait for all of these people to get in line, and you don’t need to hope that an agent says yes, and then hope that a publisher says yes, and then get on their calendar for, you know, two years from now. Like,

Timothy Hedden: [00:12:00] Yeah

David Gwyn: a great testament to, you came in, you did the work, you’re part of a community, you built that community.

Like, you were a positive member of the community, of the writing community, and here you are now a- and, and you’re on the, the footsteps or on the doorstep of, of launching this thing, and it’s a great, great testament to just the work that writers have to do. Um, and I

Timothy Hedden: Yeah.

David Gwyn: super cool, and I just wanted to say that to you.

Timothy Hedden: Thank you, and I just wanna make sure that your listeners, if anybody is out there and they wanna reach out to me, I am… Something that offends me about the whole writing community, and it’s even in the indie, but, like, even before with… Like, I hate an agent who’s like, “If you come to my seminar for only $500,” and it’s just like everybody wants money.

So I will answer any questions anybody has for free. I’m not saying I’m gonna have the answers that you want, but, like, I’m willing to talk to people. I also found a couple people on TikTok who, um, one guy told me that he would take my phone call, and then he was like, “Yeah, I don’t have time for that.” And it was just like, you know, I’m [00:13:00] old.

I’m 62 years old. Like, I prefer to talk to somebody on the phone. And then somebody else, I was like, “Can you help me?” And he was like, “You know, I really… I don’t have the time.” And I’m thinking to myself, “How can you…” Like, I don’t know, how can you say that to another indie author that you don’t have the time for a five-minute phone call?

So I don’t wanna be that person, so if anybody out there is listening and, you

David Gwyn: Super cool.

Timothy Hedden: David will put my socials here, just send me an email, say you heard me on this podcast, and I’d be happy to answer anybody’s questions. Because it’s, it’s literally… I said to this one guy, I was like, I was like, “Can you help me?

You know, like, I’m feeling around in the dark here.” And he’s like, “Yeah, that’s what it’s like.” I’m like, “Thanks, brother. Thanks so much.” You know? I was like, “Great.” So I just wanna, you know, I wanna make sure that I make myself available to people who don’t know, because it’s so scary. Like, I was so scared of Vellum, and it’s like…

The thing about Vellum, just really quickly,

David Gwyn: Yeah

Timothy Hedden: It’s so formatted that, like, they have… When you put in your copyright information, it formats the copyright page. Like,

David Gwyn: Wow

Timothy Hedden: a, there’s a, a page that’s [00:14:00] just for copyright, and they put it in. Your, um, dedication page, they format it as a ded- like, a dedication page.

So it’s like you don’t even have to think about it. It’s just, it’s just so easy to use. So,

David Gwyn: Very

Timothy Hedden: yeah, so that’s that.

David Gwyn: Awesome. T- talk to me a little bit about how you’re approaching this novel. One of the, one of the things that really shifted kind of this, this whole change that we’re doing through, through Author 101, and I think the, the industry as a whole is, you know, I think a lot of people thought you had to go to a agent and a traditional publisher to get marketing.

But the reality now is that whether you’re published big five or you’re anything, anything in between, you’re gonna do your own marketing. You gotta do your own outreach. So talk to me a little bit about, okay, you got a book launch coming up.

You know, you’re, you know, you’re doing this yourself. What have you been doing? What have you been working on to make sure that, that this book gets into people’s hands?

Timothy Hedden: So I’ve been doing, um, I’ve just been making videos for TikTok and Instagram and Facebook. I have a huge, you know, because I am so old, um, most of my, you know, everybody on [00:15:00] Facebook is, like, people I grew up with and high school people, you know? So it’s

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Timothy Hedden: know, they’re all excited.

David Gwyn: Yeah

Timothy Hedden: um, but, you know, TikTok, I cannot break into Twitter.

I know we’re supposed to call it X, but I cannot I don’t know how to build followers on TikTok. I don’t know. But I post the same content everywhere. So I just make little videos and, um, I had made a mistake in the beginning of using AI, um, to make, like, videos of, like, the women, you know, just little book trailers, and I thought it was so much fun.

And then people were telling me, like, “You can’t…” One- I needed, like, a quote for the back of my book, and one guy said, um, “Because you used an AI book trailer, I can’t have anything to do with your book.” And he’s an indie author. He’s like, “Because then people will think that I use AI.” I’m like, “What are you talking about?”

Like, I don’t- the whole… I know we don’t have to get into the whole AI thing, but, like, how can somebody think that because I made an AI trailer ’cause I don’t have any money for marketing,

David Gwyn: Right.

Timothy Hedden: my whole book is AI written?

David Gwyn: Right.

Timothy Hedden: And that’s a [00:16:00] whole ‘nother thing I have to worry about. I’m so worried that I’m gonna get sued from Bravo and the production companies I worked with because this is too real, and now I got some crazy, possibly threatening to say that it’s written by AI.

So it’s like I’m sort of screwed twice.

David Gwyn: it’s

Timothy Hedden: It’s like, “Oh my God.” So I don’t… Anyway, so that was a mistake I made. So now I started to make, you know, just videos of me talking, um, specifically about, like, like… So for instance, my prologue is on my website, and the reason my prologue is on my website is because when I was querying the book to agents, they did it, you know, when you query a book, first five pages.

What is it, what do they always say? “Something’s gotta grab me in the first five pages.” Well, the prologue is where you meet the divas for the first time and they reveal their Season 10 taglines. Is it funny? Yes. Are they catty and bitchy with each other? Yes. It’s very entertaining, but nothing really happens.

So I tried to pepper in things like, “What these divas don’t realize is that in three weeks, this glitter-drenched scent will be a crime scene.” Still, I was getting nothing from agents, so I took the prologue [00:17:00] out, and the information that you learned in the prologue I peppered throughout the novel.

David Gwyn: Yeah

Timothy Hedden: But now that I’m publishing it myself, I need to build a mailing list, so I thought I would just drive people to my website.

And at first I was gonna have them put in their email address to get the prologue, but it was too many steps. So there is a, a, you know, a link there to put your email address in so I can build up my website. So if you could, if you visit the website, just put in your email address so I can build up my, um, mailing list.

So

David Gwyn: Yeah, very cool. And I know you also outreached to a few, like, local news stations, local, uh,

Timothy Hedden: Yeah

David Gwyn: and things. Like, uh, talk a little bit about what that felt like as a, as like an indie author

Timothy Hedden: I mean, like I said, I, so I wrote, you know, I wrote a form email about myself. I, I tried to hit Philadelphia really hard, and as you know, David, I grew up in Bucks County, so I really tried to hit the Bucks County, you know, little, little boy from Bucks County with dyslexia grows up and, you know, didn’t think I could write, wrote a thriller novel after spending 25 years in reality TV.

David Gwyn: Yeah

Timothy Hedden: And I, I’m doing [00:18:00] a, a guest spot on a Philadelphia morning show on, uh, October 7th, which is the day that it launches,

David Gwyn: Amazing

Timothy Hedden: and, uh, it’s, uh, Positively Philly is the name of it. It’s on Channel 17. So I’m very excited about that, and, you know, I’m just gonna keep plugging along. I’ve done a couple podcasts. I did an interview with Metro Philly Magazine.

So, you know, I’m really just trying to… You just have to keep going, and it’s like you can’t even… You just, you make a list of people you’ve reached out to, and you keep going. You can’t, like, stew about, like, who hasn’t gotten back to you yet. And so, uh, when this is being broadcast, my book is being published like nine days from now, so it’s like I, I have so much to focus on that, like, once the launch is over, I can go back to that list and be like, “Hey, my book launched,” and, you know, whatever.

So, um, another thing that’s very annoying to me is that when you publish a paperback on Amazon, you can’t do a presale, a preorder. So I’m just telling everybody to go on the day. And so, like, what that also hopefully will do is make me an automatic, um, Amazon bestseller, so you know.

David Gwyn: Well, this, this, uh, episode will be [00:19:00] out on the day, uh, of your launch as well. So

Timothy Hedden: Oh, great. Thank you

David Gwyn: this,

Timothy Hedden: it.

David Gwyn: people

Timothy Hedden: Yeah. Go to Amazon right now. Uh, Dead Housewives of Philadelphia.

David Gwyn: now.

Timothy Hedden: So, uh, yeah, so it’s, uh, so that’s what I’m, I’m trying to do, uh, that, that way, so yeah

David Gwyn: Tell, tell me about the merchandise. I, I think this is really cool

Timothy Hedden: Okay, so, um, one of the other reasons I wanted to put the prologue in is… Well, so I ran into this author on, on TikTok, and she was like, she’s a, a romance author, and she was like, for her, uh, um, influencers and ARC readers, she, uh… Something in her new book had to do with travel, so, like, she made this box, and she put, like, a little plane ticket in it and all this little information about the…

And then she put the book. And I’m thinking to myself, “All they’re gonna get is the book.” Like, I don’t know, I- what am I gonna do? So but then I decided I had all of these taglines. So I decided to make merch. And here’s the best tagline, I think. “I’m hot, I’m rich, and I’ll cut a bitch.” So I decided to just put them all on coffee mugs and hats and tote bags [00:20:00] and, and it’s all on Etsy.

It’s Dead Housewives Merch, all one word, on Etsy. Um, and then I made these little bookmarks. Um, so it says, “Crime scene. Do not cross a bitch.” And then on the back there’s a QR code to read the prologue and then to buy the merch. But the reason I got that is because on the back of my book, the crime scene tape starts right under my name, and then on the back of the book, “Crime scene.

Do not cross a bitch,” is across the back. And I just, I mean, not to s- I hate to… I, I thought it was a brilliant idea when I came up with it. But it was just so funny, you

David Gwyn: Yeah

Timothy Hedden: I’m just like, I was like, “Crime scene. Crime scene. Do not cross…” I was like, “Oh my God, do not cross a bitch.” So it’s like, I was like, “That’s my marketing strategy.”

David Gwyn: it’s

Timothy Hedden: So yeah. So, um, so I made the merch, and the, the mugs are really cute, and they all ha- they have the six taglines on them. Another one of my favorite taglines is, um, “Mama used to say jealousy is so ugly. No wonder these bitches look so bad.” I mean, they’re just silly, irreverent, you know, taglines. So, you know, go to the, go [00:21:00] to the website and find out which tagline best fits you or, you know, your mother or whatever.

But, um, another thing I wanted to do, like, since the holidays are coming, you know, it’s like, if you… I wanna make a little commercial about, like, you know, if you don’t wanna listen to your mother-in-law this year, take a book that you can, that you can disappear into. And then if she’s, if she’s passive aggressive with you, you can give her this mug.

“I’m hot, I’m rich, and I’ll cut a bitch.”

David Gwyn: that I feel like you’re a great example of, like, the– I think a lot of people think they’ll publish a book and then people will just find it, and I think you’re a great example of put in the work, right? Like join a community, put in the, the years, get a developmental editing done, make sure it’s done right by the formatting.

Like you very well could have just like taken what that, that guy gave you through Fiverr and just been like, “All right, whatever.” But I think you’re, you’re going through the process of doing it right. But that’s only half the battle. Like the, the book being published is only half the battle, maybe [00:22:00] less.

And then the other side of it is how do you get it into people’s hands? And I think that you’re a great example for people who are listening to this, whether you are indie publishing or, you know, uh, or however you’re planning on publishing, need to be thinking this way. You need to be thinking about the marketing.

Um, and I think you’re a great example of somebody who is, who is locked in and already thinking like, “Okay, in the holidays, how are we gonna do this? In the next step, how are we gonna do

this?”

Timothy Hedden: yeah.

David Gwyn: that’s really cool.

Timothy Hedden: I mean, anyone who gives me five minutes to talk about myself, I’m there. And if I can sort of push that for the… But I just wanna say something else to your listeners too. I literally thought I couldn’t write because I was dyslexic, because I am dyslexic. And I, I started to… I mean, I was always a great storyteller, but I, I, I didn’t, I barely know how to read because my wor- everything’s backwards.

So it’s, it’s difficult to imagine that you can write a book if you can barely read a book. So I never gave up… I mean, it wasn’t a dream to write a b- I didn’t think I could even write a book, but, like, I knew I was a storyteller. So when this friend of mine [00:23:00] pushed me to start writing, and I just was like, “I don’t know,” and, you know, I started writing all these personal essays about being fat and gay and beat up in school, and I was like, “This is amazing.”

So I was like, then I kept going and I took a couple of classes, and here we are. And I, you know, I’ve written two novels. So I, I think that the… I don’t think anybody… I think anybody can do it. You just have to… Look, is your first draft, does your first draft suck? Your first draft sucks. I mean, it does.

That’s what you ha- and you have to be… I don’t, I don’t have the ego if somebody says, “I hate this because…” I don’t, I just don’t have that ego, you know what I mean? Like, it’s all information that I need as the writer of the book to, to do. You know? Like, I have to take all of that in. Like I… You know, look, maybe it’s because I’ve been in reality TV for 25 years, and every day as an editor, you make something, you give it to your supervisor, they pull it apart.

Then you make it again, you, we give it to their supervisor, they pull it apart. Then, you [00:24:00] know, so everything you do every day is wrong. So you have to build a thick skin that way, and that sort of helped me with this process as well because it’s… Everybody, you can’t see the book.

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Timothy Hedden: You know, you have to give it to somebody else.

David Gwyn: Yeah

Timothy Hedden: know, of course, in your head you hear all the lines, so it’s perfect to you, but, uh, it’s really not.

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Timothy Hedden: So

David Gwyn: that feedback loop is so important. And, and one of the things that I, I, I think we talked a lot about in the, the Storyteller Society, and one of the things we tried to build was that feedback loop, right? Like, how, how tight can you keep the feedback loop? Um, and I think you were, you were one of those people who was always, like, down to give feedback and get feedback and were, you know, on these calls talking through it.

And I think, like I said, you know, this is, this is in a, a great place where I feel like now I get to, like, come back and see everything that you’ve done over, over the last, um, you know, year or so, or two years really since, since we kind of… Since you had this idea and you were working on it, and I think it’s really cool, um, that we get the opportunity to chat here.

So, um, I’m, I’m… The last [00:25:00] thing I kinda wanna do is just have you talk a little bit about what’s next for you. So you’ve got this book out. What’s, what’s the next thing that you’re working on? What’s the next project you’re, you’re undergoing? Or maybe, maybe not quite yet, but maybe nine days from now after the

Timothy Hedden: No. Okay. So, um, I thought I would take a couple thousand dollars and go on a vacation ’cause I really need it, but what did I do instead? I took a couple thousand dollars and I’m producing the audiobook. So I-

So I need an audiobook. That’s the thing, it’s like I- it- I- it needs to feel as real as a, as a maj- as a Big Five publisher. It needs to feel that real for me. And maybe I’m silly, but I have to tell you, the audiobook is the most money I’ve spent. Uh, i- in one chunk.

I spent $1,000 on a copy editor. The developmental editor I got was free because she was taking a class and, you know, she needed, she need- this was, like, her final project, was my novel. Um, and her advice was amazing. And then, um, you know, everything else, you know, the [00:26:00] merch, I didn’t really have to pay for the merch because it’s all print on demand.

So I don’t really make that much money from the merch, but if, you know,

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Timothy Hedden: three extra dollars, it’s three extra dollars, you know? Um, so yeah, I think, um, I don’t know. I just, I think that you can’t give up, and of course you have to believe in everything and, and all of it. But, like, there’s, there’s an indie author month.

Like, I f- I forget what it is. I don’t know what, what indie author month is, but, like, that is the month that indie authors should be calling their local news stations and saying, like, “Hey, I live in this county, and I wrote a book, and it’s Indie Author Month, and maybe you’ll do something, a, a spot at 6:00 in the morning on a Saturday or a Sunday for me.”

You know what I mean? Because then that gives you your own marketing material. But, like, ins- you can’t just sit there, you know what I mean? Like, you have to be hungry to get the word out there. So I just, I think that everybody needs to… And it’s a, it’s so much wo- we [00:27:00] put years into writing a novel, David, as you know, and it’s like you have to be able to market it yourself.

And, and people are, uh, there are a couple people that I ran into, they’re like, “I don’t know, I’m afraid of the…” It’s like, what are you afraid of? You know all the answers. Any question anybody is gonna ask you, you know the answers to. So don’t be afraid to get yourself out there and push your book, you know?

I don’t know.

David Gwyn: Very cool.

Timothy Hedden: So one thing, I just wanna say one more thing, I’m so sorry.

David Gwyn: no

Timothy Hedden: The book, none of the stuff that happens in the book happened on Housewives. Like, it is, I’ve worked in reality t- for TV for 25 years, so nobody had to make these women drink. Nobody had to… Like, when, when these women go on podcasts and they’re like, “And then they made me drink,” it’s like, girl, you have been dolled up for three hours.

You have your own hair crew, your own makeup crew. You’ve got a camera crew. You walk into, like, Cipriani’s. It’s open bar, top shelf. Who… Someone made you drink? You don’t, you think you’re queen shit, you know what I mean? Like, nobody’s making these people [00:28:00] drink. So I took everything that I learned in reality TV, everything that I’ve witnessed, and put it into the world of the Housewives.

But Housewives sort of runs like an, it’s like an engine by now. But, like, you know, the bad stuff that happens You know, it didn’t, none of that really happened on, on Housewives, but it’s like, but it, I am wit- I did witness a few horrible things, you know, and people have told me stories. You know, I even put it in the, in the author’s note in the beginning of the book so I hopefully don’t get sued.

Um, that it’s a complete work of fiction, you know, and like nothing happened on Housewives. So I just need to put that out there because, you know, to cover my ass, but also because it’s true. Like, you know, Housewives, these women are pros at their jobs and they don’t need any, nobody needs to push them to do anything

David Gwyn: Yeah, no, and I, I think, um, the, a disclaimer’s always a good place to, to wrap it up. So just tell me, Timothy, tell people who are listening where, where’s the best place for them to find you? Where’s the best place for them to look you up?

Timothy Hedden: So I’m Hedden Writes on all, um, uh, socials. So my [00:29:00] last name Hedden and the word writes on, you know, at TikTok and Instagram and, uh, uh, Twitter. Although nobody, nobody cares about my Twitter.

David Gwyn: I don’t think

Timothy Hedden: And,

David Gwyn: about anyone’s Twitter anymore. I don’t know

Timothy Hedden: and, uh, and I’m Hedden, I’m HeddenWrites@gmail.com if anybody wants to ask me a question, please just say that you got me through David Gwyn.

And David Gwyn, I love you. I put you in the book, by the way. I put a big shout-out to you, and thank you because I wouldn’t have been able to write this book, I don’t think, without your help and your guidance and just the, that whole society that you made was really, really very helpful to me as a writer.

David Gwyn: Good.

Timothy Hedden: So thank you. Thank you for that

David Gwyn: very glad that I, I get to be a part of your journey and, and, uh, we got to talk so much shop over the years about writing and everything, and it’s been a lot of fun. So, uh, Timothy, this has been great. Um, everyone, the book is out now. Go grab it. Uh, and, and yeah, Timothy, we’ll, we’ll talk soon.

Timothy Hedden: Thanks so much, David. It was so good to catch up with you. Bye