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🗓 Last Time

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🎙 Interview

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📇 Biography

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📜 Transcript

Liz Alterman

Liz Alterman

[00:00:00]

Liz Alterman: I do a lot of rewriting and looking at the timeline and seeing what should be added, what can go. But I think it almost is like a puzzle that I’m trying to put together, .

David Gwyn: Multiple points of view are common in thrillers, mystery, suspense, and crime novels. Readers love to have multiple angles on the same narrative. So whether you’re writing something that has multiple points of view now or not, you probably will if you write long enough in these genres.

That’s why it’s so helpful to have Liz Alterman here to explain how she does it. I’m David Gwyn, an agented writer navigating the world of traditional publishing. During this second season of the Thriller 101 podcast, we’re going to continue our focus on building the skills necessary to write the kinds of thrillers that land you an agent and readers.

During this season, I’ll be sharing some of my own insights while also talking to agents, authors, and other industry professionals about the best way to write a novel. So if you want the expert secrets, Thriller 101 is where you’re gonna find them. Last week on the podcast, I shared insights from Kathy Reichs, author of the Temperance Brennan [00:01:00] series that inspired 12 seasons of the Bones television series .

Kathy Reichs: It’s like writing, For TV, where you have your A story, your B story, your C story. So you’ve got multiple things going on. So I do like to do that in the books and always have done that in the books as well.

David Gwyn: If you want to check out that interview, head down to the description because I linked it there. Today’s guest is Liz Alterman. Her work can be found in the New York Times, the Washington Post, Parents, McSweeney’s Internet Tendency, and other publications.

She’s the author of a young adult novel, He’ll Be Waiting, a memoir, Sad Sacked, and a domestic suspense novel, The Perfect Neighborhood, and her newest release, The House on Cold Creek Lane, that we’ll be talking about today. Alright, let’s get right into the interview.

Liz, thanks so much for being on the Thriller 101 podcast. I’m really excited to chat with you.

Liz Alterman: Oh, David, thank you so much for having me back again. I’m thrilled to be here. I listen to you every time a new episode comes out. I put in my AirPods, go for a walk and learn a little something.

Oh,

David Gwyn: you’re awesome. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. And your new novel, The [00:02:00] House on Cold Creek Lane is out right now. It’s out today. So how do you feel?

Liz Alterman: Oh, I feel good. I feel like it was a long, a long time coming and then almost like it snuck up on me and I’m sure next week if you interviewed me, I would think of 10 things that I should have done to prepare for launch day, but I’m, I’m trying to let it go and just enjoy, enjoy the day.

I

David Gwyn: feel like , that’s how it always is. You always like, after, but what an awesome book. And from what I’ve seen, a lot of people are really liking it. A lot of people sharing on social media, which is great. I feel like that’s a good a sign of a, of a great release. So can you tell us what it’s about?

Liz Alterman: Sure. So it’s a domestic suspense novel and it follows two women, Laurel and Corey, who are connected by something readers don’t know about. Right out of the gate. But it’s sort of slowly distilled as you keep reading. So it’s told in each one of their points of view. And we start off with Laurel, who is a new mom.

She has a toddler, but she’s just had a new baby. And she and [00:03:00] her husband, Rob, moved to a new home. That seems almost too good to be true. They’ve been house hunting for a while and they’re suddenly able to afford this. And because she’s on bed rest, she doesn’t have a chance to see it first. So her husband kind of handles it.

And then when she arrives, she notices this next door neighbor, who’s this older woman who her husband perceives as sort of grandmotherly and, you know, just wanting to welcome them to the neighborhood. And Laurel finds her overbearing and a little judgy. And the re I want the reader to kind of wonder, you know, how much is Laurel being sensitive and sleep deprived and, and how much is this old woman sort of a threat.

And then on the other side, she has a neighbor. She really admires who’s young and attractive and single and interesting. And so we sort of follow how Laurel navigate, but also, life as a brand new mom in this new town. And then on the flip side, we have [00:04:00] Corey who has moved into her mother’s retirement village in Florida, sort of running from a tragic past that she doesn’t, I wouldn’t necessarily say she wants to outrun.

Maybe people are sort of telling her to outrun it. And so she has kind of her own story there where she. She knows she should try to heal and move forward, but she’s just really having a difficult time adopting that philosophy. And as it continues, you get to see how these women are connected and how they each sort of go from being, you know, I would say weak or weakened by their circumstances to kind of have to take matters into their own hands.

And. For better or worse. I’ll say that.

David Gwyn: Yeah, no, what a great synopsis of this book. It is, it’s such a fun ride. And I don’t know, maybe you would think of this differently, but it had a lot of like a psychological thriller feel to it. And so, where did you come up with the idea for this story?

Liz Alterman: Oh, thank you for asking. Well, I do a lot of work at my dining room [00:05:00] table. And I’m surrounded by windows. And I always look out and I can see neighbors walking dogs.

And people pushing strollers. And I feel very fortunate to have very kind neighbors. And I’ve been here 24 years. And that has been the case. And I just started to think, you know, what if you moved in and you were new and you got this house that was a great deal. And what if suddenly you felt like, wow, I can’t, I can’t stand these neighbors and I’m an official and I’m kind of suspicious of their motives.

And so there, it came from that, but it also, when you mentioned psychological thrillers, the transcripts. I grew up, you know, in high school and college in the late 80s, early 90s, and going to the movies to see psychological thrillers was like my absolute favorite way to spend the weekend. So I really had films like The Hand That Rocks the Cradle and Single White Female, those kind of things where, you know, you’re kind of going along with your life.

And, you know, suddenly this person enters it and it [00:06:00] seems like they’re going to maybe save you from a difficult situation when really they’re the villain that you just invited into your home and your life. And so I love, like, I can never flip past those things, you know, Pacific Heights, a perfect murder, any of that.

I’m, I’m always kind of like, Ooh, all right. I know how this ends, but I’m going to watch it again.

David Gwyn: That’s awesome. And so. What kind of through lines, I mean, I’m just thinking about the perfect neighborhood, which we had a chance to talk about last time you were, you were on the podcast. What, what kinds of through lines are you thinking about?

What do you think draws you to any kind of project, whether it’s, you know, the perfect neighborhood or this this new release, the house on cold Creek lane or whatever you’re working on now, like what, what is it that draws you to these stories?

Liz Alterman: Oh, that’s a good question. You know, I think I love the idea.

I love the idea in theory. I’m not going to say I love it when I’m in the thick of it, but I love the idea of sort of planting some seeds for readers. And I would [00:07:00] say with this novel and with the perfect neighborhood, I had an idea. Of where it should begin and where it should end and then trying to get through the middle is always a challenge.

And I do a lot of rewriting and looking at the timeline and seeing what should be added, what can go. But I think it almost is like a puzzle that I’m trying to put together, I think, and I think it’s hard. I’m sure you can relate to this as the author. You’re always wondering, okay, am I giving too much away or am I being too obscure?

Like, it’s trying to strike that balance. And also I think readers of the genre really want twists. So, sometimes I’ll say, I may not be writing a whodunit as much as a why dunit, you know, or kind of like, what are these people’s motives, or are they going to come out okay, and so, but I do try to weave in a twist at the end, just so, so you don’t get 100 percent reviewers saying I saw that.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s awesome.

Okay, let’s pause there for [00:08:00] a second. I really like the way Liz articulates the way she structures her novels, or maybe doesn’t structure her novels. As she explains, she doesn’t do much plotting and works her way through, which can be really difficult.

And I do think with thrillers, mysteries, suspense, and crime fiction, we’re in a tricky place because the puzzle is one of the main things readers come for. But those things are often difficult to develop. Liz is able to pull it off masterfully, but it’s clear that she has such an understanding of the genre that she’s able to do it with minimal plotting.

Before we get back to the interview, I want to share a piece of an article Eloise Corvo wrote for Thriller101. com. It’s about how to negotiate book contracts. She recently signed a book deal and negotiated the contract herself and her article provides really valuable insights into that process.

Here’s a little piece of what she wrote.

Samantha: I started negotiating simply by asking questions.

Looking back at the email, I asked six questions for clarity. This also included posing a couple of [00:09:00] hypothetical scenarios and asking what would happen under the current language.

I made sure I expressed my gratitude and enthusiasm during this email exchange. I’d hopefully be working with these folks for a while, and I didn’t want to sour the relationship right off the bat.

David Gwyn: If you want to know what she ended up amending in the contract, head to the link in the description where you can read that whole article. In the next part of the interview, Liz and I talk about how she develops the dual points of view in her novel. I found it really interesting the way she structures the development of her characters, where I tend to be really rigid when it comes to working with multiple points of view, and I try to work on one character when I’m supposed to and another when I’m supposed to.

Liz seems a little bit more fluid. You’ll see what I mean. Plus, she reveals her top piece of advice for aspiring writers who want to publish their novels. You won’t want to miss that.

And so, I actually do want to talk a little bit about the structure of this novel, which you alluded to early on in a little bit there too, which is. The, the dual point of view and [00:10:00] I, I want to ask you because I think you did a great job of organizing the story with dual POV. I think sometimes authors use it as like almost like a gimmick.

Like they feel like they have to use dual POV and like one of the characters, you just don’t get nearly as much. I’m like, I’d rather spend the whole book with one of the characters. But I feel like for yours it was so well done that it was so necessary to have both. And so I’m curious about your process for developing these point of views to have their own distinct, I don’t want to say plot lines, but like character arcs and voice and, and all of that.

What did that look like for you in the drafting process?

Liz Alterman: That’s a great question. I think I knew that each one of these women should have something in their past that they couldn’t move forward from, or that was still kind of haunting them. So I wanted them to each have their own story there.

And then I, I was very cognizant of the time frame, that if something happened in Laurel’s world on a Tuesday, when we visit Corey, I need it to be, let’s [00:11:00] say, Thursday or Saturday, or, so that was really hard in, in revision, just kind of thinking, okay, does this line up? Is this making sense here? Or You know, cause you never want to say, okay, well wait, it’s, it’s already been Sunday and Laurel’s world.

Why am I back to Saturday? You know, am I time traveling here? So that was a challenge, but so in the end, kind of keeping it all straight was, was rough. And, but I think in terms of the voices, Corey kind of came to me. Because she is more sarcastic and she’s sort of, her outlook on the world is rather bleak and rightly so.

So I think for me, it was a little bit easier to stay in that sarcastic kind of voice as opposed to Laurel, who, as much as she loves her children, She is tired. She’s a new mom in a new town and her husband kind of, you know, can’t understand why she can’t just get out there and make them some friends. So they’re invited to barbecues and parties and [00:12:00] she’s definitely not in that headspace.

And so I think her writing her scenes were a little more challenging because I also wanted to kind of balance that she wasn’t such a downer. I didn’t want to have two characters who were always sort of, you know, down, but you know, Laurel, she does love her kids and she wants things to go well. It’s just that she can’t shake the sense that maybe they won’t.

Yeah, I

David Gwyn: think it’s so interesting. It’s funny. Whenever I talk to people about the dual POV novels, it almost always, I want to say always, but I’m sure someone will catch one one place where it’s not true. But they’re, it’s almost always they have the voice of one character comes easier than the other. They just feel like maybe it like aligns more with their experiences or where they are or just their voice in general.

And so I think that’s really common. I think something for people who are listening to hear, like, even people who are, you know, as talented and are writing great novels like you. You still have to do the work of getting into a character’s headspace that it just, it doesn’t come naturally all the time.

Like maybe one voice will, one [00:13:00] won’t. I think that’s really important for people who are listening, who are like, Oh, you know, I want to be a writer someday. I want to be published one day. Like it’s, it’s the work, right? Like the work is the work, like you have to sit down and do it and getting into another character’s headspace.

It might be easier for one and another, and that doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong. It just means you got to sit down and get, get to it. Is that kind of what your experiences has been?

Liz Alterman: Definitely. And I also, I feel very fortunate. I have this writing friend. I love her. I jokingly refer to her as my secret weapon because , I’ll share pages with her and she will say to me, mm.

I don’t think Corey would use

David Gwyn: that word. Oh, that’s a good writing

Liz Alterman: partner. She’s amazing. I feel like she’s such a wonderful find and a wonderful support. But she, she also has a great knack for giving critical feedback in an encouraging way and in a positive way that makes you not want to give up, but what makes you want to get in there and be like, all right, I’m going to get this right.

So I really appreciate that. But she would call me out kind of like, Hmm. Does that really sound like Corey? Does that sound more like Laurel? And so that really helped me. I feel like she [00:14:00] kept me honest and I would hear her voice in my head, kind of questioning when I made a word choice that I thought, all right, that is a little.

More Laurel than Corey. So yeah. Oh,

David Gwyn: that’s great. That’s a good person to have in your corner for sure And so I’m I’m curious when you’re writing this When you’re drafting or even when you’re editing Are you are you writing this linearly the way that we read it or are you writing these things like one?

Character kind of all the way through to stay in that voice and then another character and weaving them together afterwards

Liz Alterman: Pretty, it’s pretty much linear. I will do, I would write some of Laurel and then I would know I needed to shift to Corey and then, so I wanted to kind of just be true to that timeline, even though it did get a little muddled and there were parts that I went back and I would kind of trim and add.

A new scene and then have to reevaluate where I am in the timeline, but I did pretty much right and I think I, I think we had talked about [00:15:00] this with the perfect neighborhood for me sometimes writing in these different voices. It’s really helpful when I get stuck in one. Like at one person and I think, okay, you know what?

Maybe you don’t have to take her any further here. Maybe you just pop to the next character and see what she’s up to. And it’s almost like a cheat that I can, I’m going to put you on this shelf and I’m going to play with this other doll.

David Gwyn: Oh, that’s funny. That’s a good way of thinking about it. I actually really like that.

Of thinking about, you know, not forcing the issue. If you don’t have to, you can kind of just say like, ah, well, we we’ve come as far as we can go. At this point, and we’ll hop into somebody else. That’s, that’s great. So , thinking about people listening to this, people who are authors want to be where you are, want to have published books and, and you know, especially in the thriller suspense area. What do you think is like one piece of advice that you think.

For people to take away as they’re, they’re like, you, you know, listening on their airpods on a walk or in their car and they’re, they’re carrying on with their day. What’s something a piece of advice that you’d like to send them on their way with?

Liz Alterman: I would say join a writing group if you can, because [00:16:00] I think, especially, I’m so guilty of this myself.

I tell myself I’m going to write. And So many other things get in the way. And if I don’t have someone to whom I’m accountable, expecting pages, then I’m not going to deliver. And I think in some of those times where I’ve taken writing workshops, like I can remember, I would have a workshop on a Tuesday and all weekend I’d think, all right, I’m going to write 10 pages.

I’m going to write five pages. And then. Tuesday it would just come pouring out of me because it had to and sometimes I would be amazed and I would think I’m so glad I sat down to do this because I never would have had this idea if I weren’t forced to write this today for this class and so whether you take class or join like a meet up or just have this class.

friends. I used to meet in a library in a room maybe once a week with a couple of writer friends, and we were all working on different genres. And that was fun, too, because one woman was writing a memoir. I was writing a [00:17:00] thriller. Another, you know, was maybe working on something that was literary fiction.

And so We got a nice mix and everybody was able to weigh in on what was working for them in your pages and what needed to be developed further. So I would say, you know, you don’t have to break the bank. But if you can find good people who will keep you writing and expecting those pages and then weigh in.

So because I think that is hard to if you write an entire manuscript and you get to the end and you start sharing it with beta readers and you find out you veered wildly off course in chapter three. And let me tell you, I have done this. So I speak from experience or, you know, I, I wrote something that I had loved.

And when I began to share it, people said like, these side characters all feel like caricatures. They’re not fully developed. You know, you really got to go back to the drawing board. And if somebody had said that to me when they. first started appearing on the page, that would have been really helpful.

David Gwyn: this is always so much [00:18:00] fun to chat with you. I, I always enjoy our conversation. So last question for you is just where can people look you up? Where can people find you?

Liz Alterman: Oh, thank you. Well, my website is lizalterman. com and I’m pretty much under Liz Alterman at Instagram and X. My kids have begged me not to do much on TikTok, but every once in a while I, I try to cobble together a video, but yeah, anywhere.

And readers can feel free to say hi. I’m also all about zooming into any book clubs. If anyone chooses this book to discuss the book. The themes that play early days of motherhood, female friendships, any of that stuff. I’m always happy to pop in. It’s always fun to meet readers.

I think it, it makes all of those hours writing alone so gratifying.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s cool. So awesome. So if you’re, if you’re listening to this, definitely it’s out today. So go pick up the house on cold Creek lane. What a great novel, so much fun to read. Can’t recommend it enough. And Liz, as always, this is [00:19:00] so much fun to talk to you.

Thanks so much for being here.

Liz Alterman: Oh, David, thank you so much for having me. I look forward to all your future episodes. Thank you again.

David Gwyn: Okay, so that’s it. I really enjoyed this conversation with Liz. It’s always great talking to her. If you want to listen to the episode that we did previously, I’ve linked that in the description so you can check that out.

If you haven’t already, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you get notifications. When the next episode drops, I’ve got a lot of great interviews coming up in the next couple of weeks, as well as some episodes where I’ll be sharing some insights that I’ve had over the course of my early career.

And I really look forward to sharing that stuff with you. So be sure to subscribe and I will see you next week.