---

🗓 Previously…

---

🎙 Interview

---

📇 Biography

---

📜 Transcript

Leslie Conner

​[00:00:00]

David Gwyn: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the thriller one-on-one podcast.

In today’s episode, we’re diving into the world of writing mysteries and thrillers with Leslie Connor, the author of devil’s charm and the fifth grade. Leslie’s work blends suspense twists and supernatural elements. And in this interview, she’s sharing how she efficiently and effectively uses her time to write high quality stories that readers love.

She’s also going to share some effective tools that she uses to keep track of everything while she’s writing.

I’m David Gwyn and writer navigating the world of traditional publishing. During the second season of the thriller one-on-one podcast, we’re going to continue our focus on building the skills necessary to write the kinds of thrillers that land you and agent and readers. During the season, I’ll be sharing some of my own insights while also talking to agents authors and other publishing professionals about the best way to write a novel.

If you want the experts secrets through their one-on-one is where you’re going to find them. Last time on the podcast, we talked to Alex Kenna about developing character backstory in an interesting way.

Alex Kenna: if [00:01:00] a reader is going to be invested with a character, you kind of want to show enough of the positive things about them so that the reader will give them permission to start having some major flaws.

David Gwyn: That episode is linked in the description. If you want to check it out.

Leslie Connor is an author of mystery and suspense who occasionally dips her toes into the supernatural world. Her debut novel devil’s charm is the first book and the detective Lexi garner trilogy.

And the fifth grade is the second. When she’s not writing about murder and monsters, she hangs out in Tennessee with her cat Loki. Let’s get into the interview.

So Leslie, thanks so much for being on the Thriller 101 podcast.

I’m really excited to chat with you.

Leslie Conner: Well, thanks for having me.

David Gwyn: I’m really looking forward to it. So I do want to jump right in here. I know you have two books out and you’re kind of like I’m the second part of a trilogy here with the second book out. So can you talk about the fifth grave?

Leslie Conner: Yeah. Like you said, it’s the second book in the trilogy, the Detective Lexi Garner trilogy. This one, the it’s mostly takes place in Seattle, but I decided to kind of take them out into the wilderness and the Pasaten wilderness of the Pacific [00:02:00] Northwest. So a body is found, abandoned, on a remote mountain and Lexi Garner and her partner Colin Jacobs have to go in to investigate this murder.

and they find something sinister lurking in the woods. A snowstorm then comes in and traps them on the mountain. And then Lexi discovers that this killer is a creature that has awakened from a 25 year hibernation and is hunting people.

David Gwyn: Yeah, very cool. It’s super fun to, to read. I don’t read a ton of Paranormal Mystery but I, I so enjoy it. It’s so much, like, such a fun read. I read Christopher Golden, some of his stuff. Like, his blends more into the horror, but it felt very much like this. Error Rat, I think, was his book.

And it was, like, such a nice calm for this, because I was, like, I remember feeling, having that same feeling that I felt when I read his work that, that, you know, written reading this. So talk a little bit about the process of coming up with a story.

Leslie Conner: Well with this being a second book, I already had my protagonist. You know, I already know Lexi Garner. I know the hero of the [00:03:00] story. Coming up with a new story. It was more focused on the villain, the antagonist, and I’m a huge fan of anything paranormal, anything that has a monster in it. Supernatural, X Files, Walking Dead, whatever it is, I’m going to be there.

I’m for it.

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Leslie Conner: So just going through and like looking at all of the options that you have in terms of a villain And if you looked at my Google history, it’s my, my search history of like all the lure and all of this, you know, all the months and that was really the inspiration is just what is the most horrible, most evil antagonist that I can throw up against Lexi Garner and just make her life as difficult as possible.

David Gwyn: now you’ve got the opportunity here to do like a third book. How much can you tell us about like what you’re working on now and where that is in the process?

Leslie Conner: third book still in the revision phase, but this is another. It’s going to be taken in place in Seattle, and I don’t know if you’re familiar with any of the history of [00:04:00] Seattle, but there is the Seattle underground, there is a city that is underneath the current, what we know as Seattle today, back in the late 1800s, a city was built, and of course, it was built at sea level.

So there was flooding and sewage problems and all this. you know, mess going on and they just decided we’re going to pave over the old city and build our new Seattle. So that’s what you see today, but they’re, they’re still remnants of the old city still there. And it’s more just a tourist, you know, venture.

Now people go down and they, you know, Oh, it’s haunted and we get to walk through, where people lived. But I just thought this is a wonderful setting to have. Another monster here. So in the third book, it’s kind of the, the culmination. Lexi finds an army of monsters underneath the city and she has to, of course, battle them all before they take over the city.

So it’s kind of like this nice finale to the trilogy.[00:05:00]

David Gwyn: Yeah. Very cool. And, and that’s actually where I want to go next, which is talking a little bit about you know, developing a series or developing a trilogy here. Yeah. What, I mean, obviously you have this protagonist that, that you’ve been working with for a little while. So can you talk a little bit about what first inspired you to kind of write a trilogy or a series here?

And did you initially start with that in mind or did this kind of grow naturally?

Leslie Conner: I did not initially intend for this to be a series. , Devil’s Charm is the first book and it was meant to be a standalone and it can be a standalone. If you just read that book, it would, you know, end in a nice little note. But for some reason, when I finished that book, I really just, I did not want to leave these characters.

I really loved Lexi Garner and Colin Jacobs and I love their dynamic. And I just wanted to see, you know, what else can I do to them. you know, what else can I make them go through? And it just kind of it carried on to a second book. I didn’t actually even intend [00:06:00] for it to be a trilogy, but as I got into the second book and I started really expanding her world, I saw a lot of the threads that from the first to the second, that would be a great story for a third book.

So it kind of just grew organically.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s really cool. And I feel like that’s really interesting because. I’m curious how your outlining process is, like you then had this spark of a protagonist, did you have to spend a lot of time, obviously, you know, from one book to the next, did you have to spend a lot of time on the plot, or do you feel like because you had the protagonist that the plot kind of came naturally too?

Leslie Conner: Oh, that’s a good question. I think when I first started this process, I, I was leaning more toward being a pantser. And then after going through the struggle of, you know, writing 70, 000 words and then having to delete 30, 000 and then do it again, it became more, it wasn’t really a writing process. It was just self flagellation at that point.

I was just, it was just a mess. And I thought there [00:07:00] has to be a better way of doing this.

David Gwyn: Okay. Let’s pause there for a second.

Because Leslie shared something that I’ve heard from a lot of writers, how can we be more efficient with our time? For many of us writing, isn’t a full-time thing. It’s something we have to find time for and make time for. So how do you do that with a busy schedule? One of the ways is trying to be efficient.

The other is finding accountability. I found that if people are waiting for pages or if we have a meeting on the books about our work. We as writers are more likely to, well, right. So Leslie’s going to share some strategies and resources that she’s found to save her some time so she can be a stronger and more efficient writer. But my challenge to you for this week is this. Find one way to be more efficient in your writing. Maybe this is jotting down.

What you’re going to write about the night before so that when you wake up, you don’t have to spend those first few minutes trying to figure it out.

Or have a shared document with another writer where you can add pages every day or every couple of days. This will hold you accountable and make you want to keep up with the writing. [00:08:00] Or you can join a community like the storyteller society, where there’s a group of writers all on the same path as you lincoln the description. If you want more information about cohort, two of the storyteller society enrolling in February. But for today, just choose one of these things and try to implement it this week. If you can. Okay. Let’s hear what resources Leslie used to stay organized with her writing.

Leslie Conner: And so I started looking for tools and resources to help me kind of reign this in. And Save the Cat was very helpful, but the story grid, I know we’ve talked about the story grid before. It was very helpful in, in getting me to organize.

All of the beats of the story and also being able to keep track of the threads that go through. the three different novels being able to keep track of them. So, I became much more of an outliner, I think, by the second book, and it really helped me to organize all three of them as a, as a unit.

David Gwyn: It’s [00:09:00] so funny. It’s actually a common thread that I hear from authors that like, once they get through their first or second book, that they become more of a plotter than a pantser. And I don’t, I don’t know if it’s just like the natural progression that everyone goes through, because I do know some people are still pantsers and they’ll always be pantsers.

And that’s great. But I do hear a lot of that of like people who get into their second and third book and I, I think that they’re afraid of that wasted time. I know I’m, I’m guilty of that too. I’m like, I could, you know, I have an idea for a story. Like I could just start writing it. I would normally just start writing, but then I’m like, eh, maybe I’ll plot it out first and see where it goes.

Cause otherwise you do the same thing. You waste two months, three months, you know, writing something and you’re like, meh, it just doesn’t work. Let’s start the next project. Some of us don’t have time like that, you know?

Leslie Conner: Yeah, well, I, I would write, and then I would You know, I put those little notes in the manuscript, like, Oh, need more here, which is so not helpful. You know, you go back and you’re trying to fill in all those holes that you just kind of like skated past thinking, Oh, I can fix it in post. Yeah, it’s all fine.

And then you end up, [00:10:00] you know, months of your life just ripping it apart. And I thought, no, this is just, this is not a good way to do things.

David Gwyn: yeah. So have you, have you found anything that helps you from one story to the next, like keep track of the things, the continuity pieces that you needed, whether it’s like character backstory or whatever else it might be? Are there, are there ways that you found that really help you to keep that continuity as you go?

Leslie Conner: Well, I do think that the story grid, like the spreadsheet technique. I, I am able to color code. I know this sounds so nerdy, but

David Gwyn: It’s great.

Leslie Conner: I have my spreadsheet and I can color code like, okay, this is a pivotal moment. This is a, you know, a positive or negative conflict moment. And all of those things that kind of, you know.

it reminds me, this is where this needs to happen. And also the information that I’ve got in the first book that I need to make sure it stays consistent for the second and third book. It’s and it’s just an Excel spreadsheet, but [00:11:00] I color things and I make it pretty. And then so I can kind of spot, you know, like a person’s character arc or the things that happen to them and the things that I need to keep track of to make sure that I I do the call back to them because I know readers look for that.

If you know, they say, if you introduce the gun in the first chapter, you have to use the gun at, you know, things like that. When you start spanning three books, it’s really hard to keep track of all the balls that you have in the air. So yeah, I didn’t, I use the spreadsheet and it’s so easy to just locate those things.

David Gwyn: Let me ask you this, so I know I’ve looked at, you know, Save the Cat, I’ve looked at StoryGrid, which we’ve talked about before, and I’m always, I don’t know how I feel about, it always feels like they conflict you know, at certain points that there’s like, Save the Cat and StoryGrid aren’t exactly aligned, and if you look at StoryGenius, like, that’s not, 100 percent aligned.

And so how much of what you’re doing [00:12:00] is like you using Storygrid as a jumping off point, creating your own outline, or are you kind of like, no, I’m going to stick to what was created here because, you know, it’s been proven to work. Like what, how do you think, how do you navigate these kinds of like multiple ideas about how to organize and write a book that, and those moments, especially in which they can conflict with one another?

Leslie Conner: Well, I think I used Save the Cat for the beats. You’re familiar with that. There’s like the 16 beats of the story. That really helped me in terms of like writing a synopsis. And getting the broad points, knowing that I’m hitting the things that I need to hit. But when I needed more detailed, specific work, StoryGrid was very helpful.

But then in a way, StoryGrid is so detailed that it is, it’s overwhelming. And there are a lot of things that I kind of had to throw overboard, or I would drive myself crazy. So I, I kind of took the, the basic points of both of those things and [00:13:00] combined them. And it worked well for me. And of course I, I kind of tweak here and there, you know.

doing what I need to do. But those two sources were really helped me to focus on the important parts, like the, what I call the fence posts, what I can hang my hat on on each one of the, you know, the, the places where I need to be. So yeah, I use those pretty religiously.

David Gwyn: Yeah. I think that’s so, I love the way you kind of said you keep what you need to combine where you need to take and because I think that is the writing process, right? Like, I think for a lot of people, they’re looking for that, like, silver bullet source that is going to change everything for them and turn them into a bestseller.

But the reality is, like, if that existed, how many bestsellers would everyone would use it? Like, it really is about finding your process. And I think Going through and understanding like, Hey, what are the strengths and weaknesses of each of these is, is really beneficial. My, my last question for you though, is just.

This standalone versus trilogy versus series, like you’ve obviously [00:14:00] planned a standalone and then it turned into more books. What is, what has been really rewarding about writing a series that you wouldn’t find with a standalone? And how do you, like, are your future projects, are you planning more series or are you thinking more standalones?

Like, kind of, how are you navigating that as you, as you go forward with your career? Laughter.

Leslie Conner: ahead. I know what’s going to happen. I ne I never did intend on writing a series, but I, I will say and, and I honestly thought that I wouldn’t be able to do it well. ’cause I thought, okay, if you write a novel, you’ve pretty much taken the snap snapshot of these people’s lives and you’re done.

You know, it was like, what else do you have to say? It’s almost like, you know, why do you need to make a sequel to a movie? You said everything you need to say the first time, why do you need to do it again? But it was very rewarding for me to follow these characters because I was so invested in them and find new and interesting [00:15:00] ways.

to challenge them. It also challenged me, but it ended up being like, as I still love these characters, like you, when you finish a book and you’re like, I’m so done with this, you know, I’m, I’m ready to be finished with this project and move on to something completely different. But I really enjoyed these characters.

And I’ve even considered, even after this trilogy, maybe taking Lexi Garner on a new journey. As, as she ends the third novel in one phase of her life, she’s going to be entering a new one and I thought, Oh, it might be interesting to follow her further. So, I don’t know. I don’t know if I will do that.

It’s a, it’s an interesting concept to consider, but I, I don’t think Lexi Garner has done yet.

David Gwyn: Yeah, very cool. That’s awesome. So my last question for you is just where can people find you? Where can people look you up? It’s

Leslie Conner: my website is leslieconnorbooks. com and that’s C O N N E R because there is another writer named [00:16:00] Leslie Connor, who spelled it C O N N O R. But all my social media accounts are on my website and you can find the books, the links to Amazon.

It’s all there on the website.

David Gwyn: Yeah, very cool. So I’ll, I’ll link to that. So people have quick access. Leslie, this was so much fun. I really appreciate taking the time to chat.

Leslie Conner: Thank you so much. I was glad to be here.

David Gwyn: All right.

And that’s it. So what an amazing conversation with Leslie Connor today, we learned about some ways to write better stories and how to write them more efficiently, which is so important.

Next time on the podcast. I’m sharing a really interesting conversation with thriller writer, David McCloskey.

He, and I dissect his opening paragraph and we talk about why he did the things he did in that opening paragraph to really grab readers’ attention. Be sure to subscribe if you haven’t already.

So you don’t miss an episode. Thanks for hanging out and remember, these tips are meant to be actionable, so don’t just, listen, go put them to work in your own writing and your own writing practice. And I’ll see you next week.