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🗓 Last Time

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🎙 Interview

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📇 Biography

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📜 Transcript

Jennifer Chevais: [00:00:00] a lot of what I see is things that are close, but not close enough.

And what I think needs to happen is that, you know, feel free, get that group, do the writers group, like give each other feedback get, get it as close as you can get it

David Gwyn: If you ever find yourself wondering what agents think about when reading your submission, then you’re in the right place. I’m David Gwyn, an agented writer navigating the world of traditional publishing. During this first season of the Thriller 101 podcast, we’re going to focus on building the skills necessary to write the kind of thrillers that land you an agent and readers.

I’m talking to agents, authors, and other industry professionals about the best way to write a novel. So if you want the expert secrets, this is where you’re going to find them. Last week on the podcast, I talked to Dr. Leslie Dobson.

She shared some really insightful comments on character motivation and using psychology to accurately portray characters and engage readers.

Dr. Leslie Dobson: So I was working with highly, highly mentally ill, [00:01:00] psychotic, mostly psychotic or psychopathic individuals right when they were arrested, right after they had convicted usually a felony or were the ones I would be with. Well there, let’s say they were being charged with the felony.

But I met them in a very chaotic state. They were unmedicated and so, I became extremely fascinated with how sick individuals minds can be, how much we can help them, but also just what the world is not aware of

David Gwyn: If you want to hear that conversation, it’s linked in the description. Today’s guest is Jennifer Chevais. She is currently building her list of authors specializing in fantasy, science fiction, and horror, but also as a soft spot for thrillers, upmarket fiction, memoir, graphic novels, and many more. Jennifer’s experience includes freelance acquisition reading and translating for a French publisher, as well as nearly a decade in advertising.

Today, she’s going to talk about one of the submissions to the Thriller 101 podcast, and she’s gonna discuss what she’s looking for in thrillers in general. So let’s get to the [00:02:00] interview.

Jennifer, thanks so much for taking the time to chat. I’m really looking forward to having this conversation. You too.

Jennifer Chevais: Thank you

David Gwyn: So we’ll start with a big question right off the top here. What made you want to become an agent?

Jennifer Chevais: I have been working in books peripherally, or I had been working in books peripherally. When I lived in France, I was an acquisitions reader for a French publisher. And I started doing that in 2011.

And just being part of, you know, The publishing process was something that I just, I couldn’t get enough of. So when I moved back to Canada and I ran into the president of the rights factory uh, a local conference Sam Hyatt, I was like, you’re looking for readers, I know how to be a reader.

And he’s like, great, send me an email. And I’m like, okay, yes. And and it started that way. So I worked initially as an editorial assistant and you know, to get my chops in on evaluating [00:03:00] manuscripts on the big picture level developmental. And went from there.

David Gwyn: So you’ve been with the rights factory now for a little while. And It sounds like you’ve always kind of had that interest in the in the publishing world But what genres are you looking for? What are you interested in reading right now?

Jennifer Chevais: So I am looking for horror thrillers. I’m really interested in commercial work over literary. I want big characters with strong drives. And I really, I want to feel something. Yeah, if you can make me cry.

You can make me feel big things that translates well to editors, so.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so obviously with, with this podcast, you’re like right in the wheelhouse here. A lot of thriller, a lot of suspense, a lot of mystery, so, in those first couple of pages of a manuscript, I know you’re looking for character you know, you’re looking for these big moments, but even in those first couple pages, what are you looking for from a [00:04:00] submission?

Jennifer Chevais: A really interesting hook. something that I haven’t necessarily seen before. And I know it’s really frustrating for authors to kind of get that idea of what does that mean? What is a hook? And it’s, again, it’s, it’s, I guess you could just think of it as literally a hook, like in pulling somebody in. And especially if it hasn’t been done before or quite the way that author is doing it.

Yeah, that’s really exciting. So it’s usually in the first couple of paragraphs where I’m like, okay, I’m in or I’m not

David Gwyn: Yeah, and what do you I mean, are you seeing a lot of the same? Hooks being used by authors. Is that something that you’re seeing that’s common? Is it a lot of the same things? I mean what what percentage of your inboxes is Finding a hook that’s kind of unique and something that you’re interested in.

Jennifer Chevais: Yeah, I think that a lot of authors I do try [00:05:00] and go in with explaining the scene first. I don’t need to know that stuff right away. I need to know what the problem is and why it matters. And I don’t need the scene building. it’s really diving right in. Every agent is going to be different though.

So there are some agents that of course, I mean, they’re going to want to see a slow build. I’m not that agent.

David Gwyn: Well, I, you know, it’s funny when you said you were more commercial than literary. And I think you put it so, so perfectly, like what the problem is and why it matters. And I think if people are putting that in the forefront of their minds, I mean, you know, the, the query trenches are a real thing. Like people are in there trying to, trying to find their way out and, and you cannot waste time.

And, and I think to your point, like, I think some people Agents who are looking for a different genre. If you’re looking more for a slow burn, you know, if you know that that agent’s looking for that, then you could probably get away with a couple of pages. But I think especially thrillers, [00:06:00] commercial thriller, like you, you got to get in there, you got to get to the, the, the thing that you’re trying to say.

And I think it’s really important for people to hear.

Let me ask you this question. Do you have any authors with, with books coming out soon, stuff coming up that, that people should be aware of?

Jennifer Chevais: I do, but I can’t talk about it yet.

David Gwyn: Well, we’ll have to, we’ll have to reconnect.

Jennifer Chevais: Yes. Yeah. There’s I it’s the contract process.

It, it, it can be long. I hear you. Yeah.

Ethan: Summary: A detective newly assigned to a genetic genealogy department is faced with a stunning revelation during his first investigation: his father moonlit as a prolific serial killer in the 60s and 70s. As the family escapes to a remote cabin, tensions build amongst them. As tempers flare and the number of crimes their patriarch is tied to increases, they must confront the most terrifying question of all: if genetics are inherited, can evil be as well?

Chapter [00:07:00] 1

THEN

April 8, 1967

Wilmington, Delaware

The darkness gobbled up the brisk-walking brunette until the streetlights released her figure back into view. The soft swoosh of her jeans helped the young man keep tabs on her as he followed several steps behind.

He was just out for an evening stroll, contemplating his senior year of high school, when she’d passed by on the other side of the street a few minutes before. He’d glanced at her for just a moment when the thought popped into his head before he fully understood it. He’d prepared, picked the spot, left some items out, but hadn’t set out to make tonight the night.

He’d been thinking about it for weeks, sure. Hell, for years if he was going to be truthful with himself, and why not be truthful? He could do this one thing. See what it was like, get it out of his system, and move on.

Shit, wasn’t that why his [00:08:00] friends were signing up for the war? Pop over to Vietnam, see if fighting was like how their fathers described it? See what pulling a trigger did to one’s sense of self?

It would be the same for him. To see what it felt like. He could get the urge out and get back to his life. Figure out what his post-high school existence was really going to look like right after he got this one thing done.

He whispered into the night as she neared the curve in the sidewalk, “Don’t look up.”

This stretch of road buttressed against the woods and confused people. The sidewalk veered to the left, but he often followed people who found themselves a few steps into the woods before recognizing their error. They’d laugh out loud and announce they hadn’t been paying attention.

And she wasn’t either.

She hit the spot and as if his words willed it, continued forward before realizing her mistake. When she turned to correct herself, she ran straight into him.

[00:09:00] She placed a hand softly on his chest, the other clutching her own. “I’m so sorry,” she said. “Oh, hi.”

Chemistry, of all things. That was it, she was in his Chem class. They never talked, never even sat by each other, but evidently, she recognized him.

“That’s okay,” he said. He took her hand, and tightened his grip as she began to pull it away.

Her expression of recognition turned to confusion then anger.

“Let go,” she said.

She pushed him back a bit, but he easily had forty pounds on her, and didn’t even stumble. His free hand was around her throat so quickly, it wasn’t until they were a few paces back when she started to really fight.

Off balance, her first blow glanced off his ear. Annoying, but no damage done. He grabbed her other wrist, twisting it before she was able to take another swing. [00:10:00] She screamed, but he knew it was too late.

David Gwyn: Let’s talk about this submission a little bit. So obviously, you know, people have just heard it. I’m curious about the summary first. Let’s just talk about this kind of quick pitch that this author wrote. , what do you think it was about the summary that kind of fits with what you’re looking for?

Jennifer Chevais: For me, this seems like a really good buildup in terms of what the problem is, why it matters.

It’s got a lot of opportunity for big stakes, but also big family moments. And everybody has their own story on how their families work, but we all know that they’re all like a little bit dysfunctional and that’s okay. I mean, that’s just everybody’s family is a bit like that. So but again, this terrifying question, if genetics are inherited, can evil be as well?

Like what? Yes. Tell me more.

David Gwyn: always have this moment when I’m, whenever I’m [00:11:00] talking to agents and they tell me a little bit about like what they’re looking for generally and what they’re interested in. And there’s always, I can always see shades of it. In the work that they choose to, to kind of look at.

And this is no different. I mean, you’re, you’re getting those like stakes, you’re getting the kind of family dynamic. Like you said, you know, the, the potential for a lot of powerful emotional scenes and, and so you can see that it’s, it’s just always funny. There’s always like something that an agent says that I’m like, Oh yeah, this, I could see why they picked this particular submission.

Okay, let’s pause there for a second.

Before we find out what Jennifer thinks about the submission for this week, I want to share that Roxy Key, a former guest, has written an article for Thriller 101 that’s perfect for celebrating Pride this month, here’s a quick peek into her article.

Roxy says, I’m finding that in recent years, queer characters are popping up in fiction more and more, and not as you might expect. I’m not just talking about books where the main character has a big coming out moment and deals with the resulting fallout, although there is definitely a place for [00:12:00] those stories.

No, I’m talking about the detective who just happens to be gay. The best friend who just happens to be transgender. The cousin who just happens to be gender fluid. Queer characters who simply exist happily within the pages of our favorite novels. The full article can be found on thriller101.

com and I’ve linked it in the description of this episode if you want to check that out. It’s definitely worth the read. Just as a reminder, we’re still looking for more writers for thriller. One on one. com. Whether you have a book to promote, or you’re just working on building your author platform, consider writing an article for thriller.

One on one to reach a broader audience, improve your author platform, or something to add to your bio. This can be great. If you’re querying too, we love reading and thinking about craft author, platform, querying agents, et cetera,

articles that are chosen will be published on the Thriller 101 website, promoted through our email list, and mentioned on the Thriller 101 podcast. If you’re here to inform, educate, share, and help the Thriller 101 community, then there’s a place for you. You can find more information in [00:13:00] the link in the description of this episode.

Okay, let’s head back to the interview.

Talk to me a little bit about the opening pages. What, what do you think was the biggest strength of these opening couple of paragraphs?

Jennifer Chevais: I really liked that the author did not tell too much, let the, the reader experience the walk down the street in the steps of this fellow that we don’t know really yet what’s going to happen.

And then there were even just the, there was this part where . The streetlights released her figure back into view. Like, wow, that’s, that’s a really evocative way to say, you know, how, how she disappeared and then she came back and then she’s disappearing again.

And that’s in the first paragraph. So I just want to make that clear to listeners that this, this language was already up front. Thank you. Yeah,

David Gwyn: I noticed that too. I marked that one as well. And I I always think it’s interesting [00:14:00] when whenever I read Submissions and there’s like it always seems like there’s a fine line between the the right amount of setting description I’m sure you find this too and like too much and it’s like a fine line And like usually people either do not enough or too much and I feel like this was enough like it it had those moments where I This writer showed that she can write really strong description and setting and, and then just kind of like punctuated it nicely and just put an end to it and was like, I could do this, I could do this, you know, for paragraphs if you wanted me to, but, but I don’t need to, like you got it and move on.

And I think that shows a lot of maturity in an author.

Jennifer Chevais: Exactly. We all know what a street looks like at night. And for women reading this, they’re gonna feel it right away because they know what it’s like to walk a street at night. They know it. And so it was, Yeah.

David Gwyn: And I think to this, this is an interesting opening and [00:15:00] I’m, I’m curious about your thoughts about opening it with this particular type of scene. And I imagine it was what drew you in, which is you’re getting a lot of active work, not necessarily like action, like car crash or whatever type of action.

But like, A lot of movement and a lot of, you know, mental, like, interiority work with, with this main character. And is that something that you’re typically drawn to, or something that you just found was really well done in this, this particular submission?

Jennifer Chevais: Typically, yes, that’s what I’m drawn to, like, that because it was, it was third person, but it still felt like I was in his head.

And and then at the very, very end of the, chapter, I guess. It was one of those things, he knew it was too late. I’m like, what? Okay, too late for whom? For her? Or for him? Like, it was, it was an interesting way to end it. I mean, I can guess that it was for her. And although I do want to caution authors not necessarily [00:16:00] to fridge female characters right away.

In the sense of using the death of a woman as being the impetus for the story, but I don’t feel in this, it’s, that’s what’s happening. I feel like there’s something, it, it’s just a setup for the actual story, so it’s, it’s a complicated one because it does still have that female character, like the trope of the female character her death being the impetus of the story.

But at the same time, this feels a little bit different. Like I, I can, I can get on board because that’s,

It’s just an example.

David Gwyn: I feel like there’s a lot of authors playing with that now, knowing that it’s a trope, knowing that it’s, that is often overused and playing with it in a way that, that is really unique. I was like, okay, you’re, you know, you’re getting a serial killer story.

You know, like, what are the tropes that, that you’re gonna keep, and you’re gonna maintain, and you’re gonna say, [00:17:00] like, are what people are looking for when they sit down to read a serial killer book, like, they know what’s gonna be about serial killers. There are certain things that you need to give an audience that is gonna want this type of book, but at the same time, how do you subvert those things?

How do you make it unique? How do you make it fresh? How do you bring it into, you know, you know, the 21st century in a way. And yeah, I think to your point, like it feels to me like, you know hopefully, hopefully this author pulls that off. And so it actually leads right into my next question, which is now you’ve, been hooked by, by these first couple of paragraphs here, what do you hope to see in the next couple of pages that would make you be really excited about, about reading the entire story?

Jennifer Chevais: I think that this could go either way. It could go right into a detective who’s a little disillusioned with their work and they’re wanting to find more meaning in their life. Like that, I mean, again, that could be a jumping off point for subverting that trope of the frustrated [00:18:00] detective. It could jump right into a family matter of discovering that the the father was a serial killer and what does that mean?

So.

David Gwyn: Yeah, it’s funny. I, I, I like asking that question. Cause like, I’m guessing as you know, as much as anybody. And I’m always like, I hope I don’t stress the writer out. They’re like, Oh, I got to change everything.

They’re like, Oh, I didn’t go right into this. Then what’s the agent want? But no, I think, I think it’s, it’s funny. It’s, it makes me think, whenever I ask that question, I always get something unique and something fresh. And I think it’s for people like you who see it, sit and read like a lot of queries and a lot of opening pages.

I think for people to hear the way that you think about story someone who’s, who’s, you know, ingrained in story and a day to day basis and are reading these, I think it’s really important for people to hear that, like, wait, it was, you didn’t just jump to like the first idea that everyone goes to. It’s like, no, no, no.

She like went to something a little bit different, like kind of turned away a little bit, and I think that’s really important for people to hear that. The way that, that agents, especially the people, who do a lot with story that they [00:19:00] think through story. I always love to ask that question.

I always think that’s really interesting. So my last, well, two more questions for you. My last one that is like kind of main question is you’re talking to people who are querying now, people who are trying to write books, who, who want to get signed by an agent. It, to, if you’re talking directly to them, what’s the, Is that something that you think they should either take away from this conversation or think about as they go about their day and go about, you know, trying to write books that get noticed?

Jennifer Chevais: Well, that’s a good question.

David Gwyn: It’s a hard question. I know. It’s a hard question. I save the hard ones for the end.

Jennifer Chevais: I think that they need to get the feedback from their peers as much as possible because a lot of what I see is things that are close, but not close enough.

And what I think needs to happen is that, you know, feel free, get that group, do the writers group, like give each other feedback get, get it as close as you can get it , potentially hire an editor to [00:20:00] go over it. And also.

To make sure that you realize that feedback is not failure . Every agent is only one person. And again, as I mentioned earlier, what is a slow burn might work for somebody else, but it won’t work for me. And that’s okay. It’s, it’s not failure. If I. Decline your submission. It’s feedback. Go back to the drawing board and find that perfect agent and cause they’re likely out there.

You just have to keep at it.

David Gwyn: Yeah. Great advice for people who are listening. So my last question is an easy one, which is where can people find you? Where can people look you up?

Jennifer Chevais: So I’m on QueryManager under Jcheve and and then I do have XProfile, but I don’t use it anymore because X is a little bit scary right now. And then I’m on Blue Sky as well. And then The Rights Factory, of course, the rightsfactory. com [00:21:00] and I have a little page. It’s got my clients underneath there as well. And it’ll link to the query manager.

David Gwyn: So yeah, if you’re listening and you want quick access to Jennifer, I will link to some of that stuff. So you, you have quick access, Jennifer. This was so much fun. I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with us. This was great.

Jennifer Chevais: It was really fun. Thank you so much.

David Gwyn: Okay, so that’s it. I thought Jennifer did a great job of talking through what worked well with this submission, what she’s looking for in a manuscript, Subverting tropes and so much more. If you’re still here, do me a huge favor and leave a review. It means the world to me.

And I love reading them. I also add them to the thriller one on one newsletter because I enjoy them so much. I shouldn’t be the only one who gets to read them next week. I’m talking to Jessica Payne. She’s a longtime friend of the thriller one on one podcast. And if you’ve heard her other interviews on here, you know, she’s going to provide so much value.

I’m looking forward to sharing that conversation with you next week. Make sure you subscribe if you haven’t already, and I’ll see you then. Okay.