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🗓 Previously…

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🎙 Interview

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📇 Biography

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📜 Transcript

Elle Grawl

David Gwyn: [00:00:00] Hey everyone. This is a special sneak peek inside the storytellers society. A community of writers hell bent on traditional publishing.

Where members get access to industry experts, agents published authors and writers who are on the same path as them. And who are ready and willing to provide accountability, support, and much needed feedback.

This is a community who’s committed to taking their writing to the next level.

And Elle Grawl. I’ll serve as our resident author throughout the month of December, she shared her insights answered questions from cohort members live over zoom, as well as within the community over the course of the month. We’re actually enrolling a new cohort of writers in early 20, 25.

So if you want this year to be your best writing year ever head down into the description for this episode to sign up for the waitlist.

Do you struggle to find the time to write with a busy schedule, or maybe you wondered how you can keep the tension and pacing and your story from start to finish today, we’re joined by Elle Grawl author of two. Great thrillers. One of those faces and what still burns. L shares her journey of drafting her debut [00:01:00] novel during her demanding day job as a lawyer, how becoming a mom shaped her writing process. And the strategies she’s developed to writing.

And the strategy she’s developed to master pacing and tension in her work, whether you’re trying to finish your first draft or refine your storytelling.

This episode is packed with practical tips and inspiration. You don’t want to miss. So let’s dive right in.

I’d love to hear what you’re working on right now.

Elle Grawl: Yeah. So I I, so I have those two thrillers that are out, but I I decided to try a more traditional mystery as my next project after that. So I’ve finished that and that is on submission. And it’s a series, so I’m kind of working on a second book while I wait to hear back on that.

So so it’s kind of a different, you know, subgenre of the same thing, but you know, it follows one character and it’s, it’s really different working on a series rather than a standalone psychological suspense. So, you know, it’s been interesting. Yeah.

David Gwyn: Very cool. And so if you think back now, I don’t [00:02:00] know if you can think you put yourself all the way back in your shoes as a, as a debut writer, Can you talk about what that process was like, what your kind of like typical day was like as you were writing your debut novel before you had an agent?

Elle Grawl: Yeah, sure. So I I was at my first law firm job when I started that novel and it was pre pandemic. But I ended up finishing it during the, like at the first part of the pandemic. But so my routine kind of changed in the middle of drafting that. But. In the beginning I was mostly writing on my lunch break.

I would I would go to this cafe down the street from my office and I always took my lunch break. I would like insist. Cause I was like, I want to work on this. So, so I would I’d go down the street and then I’d, you know, write for an hour with coffee and then I’d like cram my lunch in the car right before I’d go back into the office.

So you know, I kind of have fond memories of that, but you know, things obviously changed now. So I, I managed my time a little bit differently, but but yeah, I, I would mostly just [00:03:00] get a big word count during that. And then, like I said, when the pandemic hit and I was finishing the book, I had a lot more disposable time to just.

you know, work on it in between things. So everything got cancelled. So so I finished it up around that time, early 2020. So.

David Gwyn: Nice. And, and can you talk a little bit about how your writing process has evolved now that you’ve, you know, had another book come out and now you’re in this mystery and you kind of have a, maybe a series going here.

Like, what does your writing routine look like these days? Yeah,

Elle Grawl: Okay, so I’ll actually tell you what my writing routine looked like up until a few months ago. I have a new baby, so it’s currently evolving. So it’s kind of changing again, but what it looked like was I was waking up early in the morning just to write.

And I would, you know, I’d get as many words as I could first thing in the morning, and then usually in the evening I would work on editing what I had written before and I found that that worked really [00:04:00] well. Now, like I said, everything is you know, kind of shuffled around, and I’m mostly writing on my phone which, you know, is fine, it works, so, and I’m writing in between naptimes, and I never know when they’re gonna be, so.

So, So, you know, it’s a little different, but yeah, I’m still trying to find my footing.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s wild. So even somehow less time than you’ve ever had, probably. Yeah, that’s, that’s great. So, yeah, talk a little bit about your process. Do you find that as you’re writing, like, has your process in terms of how much plotting you do, has that changed much or have you kind of always done the same type of structure?

Elle Grawl: No I think that has changed a lot too. So I I don’t know. I’ve kind of been like a hybrid. blotter, pantser, I guess, from the beginning. Like I, I would hop around in the draft quite a lot, but I would have like a vision for where I wanted to go and I wouldn’t meticulously plot I would kind of get my head together and write like a rough timeline, but that would change, you know rough timeline of [00:05:00] what was going to happen in the story and when, and I’d have to like re modify it you know here and there just to, you know, reorient myself, but but I would hop around a lot chronologically within the story.

And then I kind of, you know, mesh it all together and the way that I wanted it to be presented. And I found that that is not very efficient. It’s, it’s the, the reason I did it was my, my philosophy was, and it still is, I think you should do whatever you need to, to get draft finished. Right. And so if I needed that momentum, because I was excited to work on a certain scene, then I would, you know, I’d hop to wherever I needed to go to get words on the page.

But as I’ve gone on, I think I found a way that works a little bit better. I’ll kind of bullet point the next few chapters. So I try to stay in order as much as I can. And then I will you know, kind of try to keep things as neat as possible. I’m trying to be a cleaner drafter. It doesn’t come naturally to me, but I think in the long run, it makes things a lot [00:06:00] easier when you’re revising and editing down the road.

So.

David Gwyn: That makes a lot of sense. And, and have you found now that you’ve got, I mean, when you’re writing your debut novel, like you’re the only one who’s touching the book and now you’ve got like an agent, maybe editors, you’ve, you’ve obviously worked with editors before. How has the feedback that you’ve gotten from your agent, from editors, from, from other people, how has that impacted the way that you write?

Like, do you find that you’re thinking about that feedback that you’ve gotten as you’re drafting?

Elle Grawl: Yes. Yeah, I I, I’m thinking a lot about pacing these days. And that wasn’t really something that was, you know like that term wasn’t really on my radar when I was writing my first book. It was obviously, you know, feedback I got later on it when I was editing.

But but yeah, pacing is kind of at the forefront of my mind, especially in the genre that I’m in, you know, I’m trying to, you know, keep an eye on pacing and it’s different for each type of story. You know, if I’m writing more of a suspense I try to kind of, gauge how the pacing should be different from a traditional mystery like I’m working on.

Or, you know, like more of [00:07:00] a, more of a a solid thriller, you know, suspense versus thriller, kind of that nuance. It’s a little, you know, tricky, but, but yeah, so I, I think that’s probably the feedback that I’ve kind of taken to heart the most and tried to be mindful of when I’m drafting moving forward.

So.

David Gwyn: Okay. I want to pause here for a second because Elle mentioned something really important about pacing.

She ensures there aren’t too many slow chapters in a row without tension. She checks her drafts for moments where the stakes maybe dip too low and then she’s able to, rearrange scenes or add new layers of conflict just as a way to keep readers engaged. This is a really important strategy for us as writers, because pacing isn’t just about action. It’s about managing reader’s emotional engagement with the story and really the rollercoaster that they go on or that you want them to go on when they travel through your story. So here’s something you can do today. Review a few chapters of your manuscript and ask yourself, . Is the tension too low for too long.

Are there [00:08:00] opportunities where you can heighten the stakes or insert more conflict? Are there ever times in which there isn’t enough tension.

Try swapping a scene and introducing like a mini obstacle or something to shake things up for your readers. Experimentation will be important here to try to find out what works best for your stories flow, but be willing to go out there and try. And that’s really, what’s important with this process.

Okay. Before we head back into the interview.

I want to talk about one more thing. You’ve probably read. And re-read. And re-read your opening couple of paragraphs. You probably looked over those opening paragraphs, dozens of times, hoping an agent and readers. We’ll love them as much as you do. And wondering if you’ve nailed it. Or what’s just not working. You’re not alone.

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I’ll show you how they grab attention instantly, how they set the tone for their stories, what elements they add in their opening. And most importantly, how you can do the same. Here’s how it works over the course of a few days. I’ll send you an email that dissects one opening, each breakdown is packed with actionable tips.

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If you’re ready to stop overthinking your pages and start writing with confidence, sign up now, just click the link in the description and let’s make your opening so intriguing that agents and readers have to keep reading.

Okay. Um, let’s head back to the interview.

Yeah, I think that’s, that’s really interesting that you say that because I think a lot of people who are especially outside this genre, they, they tend to lump like thrillers, mysteries, suspense, like all, and crime fiction, like all into like one thing, but they really do have a different feel.

And I think like tone is important, obviously, but, you know it’s interesting that you mentioned pacing, like when you’re, when you’re drafting and you’re thinking about pacing, [00:10:00] do you have like checks that you go through? Like, do you reread a chapter and gauge it that way? Or are you looking kind of like holistically from chapter to chapter how things are going?

Or is it a little bit of both?

Elle Grawl: Yeah, I think as I’m reading through, I feel like I kind of take note if there’s been a few too many chapters that have gone by without that tension that I’m looking for, you know, if there’s too much of a breath between, you know, the, the crazy scenes going on or the tension building that I try to make note that I need to rearrange something.

Or either, you know, add a different layer to heighten the tension or if I need to rearrange something to, to make it, you know, flow a little bit better for the reader. So, so yeah.

David Gwyn: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So for, for people who are working on their novels, they’re, they’re working on their debut and they want to come up with either like a writing process or like a kind of a pacing check, like any, any kind of these things, like.

everyone’s kind of working on something different. What, what advice do [00:11:00] you think you would have for people as they’re trying to figure out their process and trying to figure out how to get this, like you said, kind of get the first draft finished?

Elle Grawl: Yeah, well, I, so I still stick with what I said about like, do whatever you have to, to get the words down to finish something.

Because for me, that was the biggest, hurdle was actually finishing a project. And and not getting distracted by other projects because, you know, I think we all have a bunch of different ideas that we want to, you know, pursue. But I think I think, yeah, whatever you have to do. So if you do have to hop around, you know, and in the middle of, One story drafting it.

I, you know, I wouldn’t be scared to explore different methods that people have. I’ve tried a lot of different ways. I’ve tried meticulous plotting. It didn’t work out, so I abandoned it pretty quickly. But you know, I’ve, I’ve tried a lot of different ways to to make things a little bit more efficient or, you know, motivating to, you know, to get things where I want them.

So you know, [00:12:00] I, I think it’s important to kind of look at other people’s processes and, you know, try out different things. I think it can be really tempting when you find something that you think works that you want to just stick to it, but but sometimes one day it won’t work and then you’ll be more open to trying different things.

So that’s at least in my experience. So I’ve kind of, you know. you know, whenever motivation starts to fade or life gets in the way, you know, try something else.

David Gwyn: I love, I love that advice. I don’t hear that enough. So I, I like to talk to writers about their process and I’m, I’m always so curious as, as so many writers are about other people’s process.

And not to like replicate and steal like something specific, but rather like maybe there’s something out there that you’re not thinking about. You can grab a part of a writer’s like work process like this, another part like this. But I really like that, that thing that you mentioned, like not to fall in love with a process and, and be too stuck on it, like be willing to say like, Hey, this worked for six months, but it doesn’t work anymore.

Like what does this look like now? I think that’s really, really great [00:13:00] advice.

Elle Grawl: I I really like watching YouTube videos where we’re author tubers, they’ll try a famous author’s routine for a day. And I love watching those. So I, you know, I think that’s kind of fun to draw inspiration from those and, you know, see what, like Neil Gaiman or, , Stephen King, like they all have different processes and stuff. So it’s kind of fun.

David Gwyn: Yeah, no, that’s very cool. So L, this has been great. Thanks so much for sharing.

Elle Grawl: Thank you. Yeah.

David Gwyn: Okay

and that’s it. So that was a really insightful conversation with Elle today. We learn how she carved out time to write her debut novel while juggling a demanding day job. And how her process has evolved as her life and career have changed. One of the things that I loved about what she talked about was remaining flexible in your routine, experimenting with methods that work for you.

And most importantly, not to get too precious about the process that has worked in the past. Just do whatever it takes to finish the first draft. Elle also talks about pacing. And one of the trickiest parts of writing a thriller or mystery [00:14:00] can be pacing. Readers are expecting a particular type of flow from your novel.

You do have to deliver that to a degree. Ella’s advice to ensure tension doesn’t waiver for too long is really important to remember. And it’s something that you can actually start implementing in your work right now. I remember every writer’s process is different, but staying adaptable and open to new approaches

is what keeps the creative energy flowing.

Don’t be afraid of stepping out and doing something different. It might just become the best thing you’ve ever done. All right. Thanks for listening. I hope you found this episode helpful. Don’t forget to share it with a fellow writer until next time.

Keep writing. And remember that publishing happens to the people who don’t quit. All right, I’ll see you next time.