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🗓 Last Time

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🎙 Interview

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📇 Biography

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📜 Transcript

T108 AN

T108 AN

Amy Nielsen: [00:00:00] enough detail so that I’m hypothesizing what I think is going to happen, but I don’t have to be right and I sometimes love when a reader drops hints and I hypothesize something And I’m wrong.

You know, and that’s totally okay. You know, your goal isn’t to trick your reader, but it’s okay to not be right sometimes.

David Gwyn: If you’re hoping to sign with an agent in the next few months, you’re going to love this episode with my guest today. We’re going to deep dive into a fantastic submission that shows a ton of promise. And my guest Amy is going to share so many tips with you that you’ll find yourself pausing, rewinding, and safely taking notes.

If your goal is to land a literary agent, as soon as possible, then this will be one of the most valuable things you do for your writing career this week. I’m David Gwyn an agented writer navigating the world of traditional publishing. During this first season of the thriller one-on-one podcast, we’re going to focus on building the skills necessary to write the kinds of thrillers and mysteries and suspense novels that [00:01:00] land you agents and readers. I’m talking to industry professionals about the best way to write a novel.

If you want the experts secrets, this is where you’re going to find them. Last time in the podcast, we talked to bestselling author. Catherine McKenzie.

Catherine McKenzie: I call myself a pantser but I’m probably really more of a hybrid.

So I don’t write long detailed outlines, but I do spend a lot of time thinking about the book. And I always know the end before it starts. Often I see like an end scene. And then I, I know some of the big twists slash secrets that people have. And I knew like the, the who, what, when, where and why.

David Gwyn: She shared all about how she develops her dual POV novels and gives us some tips on timelines too, which I thought was genuinely shocking. If you haven’t checked out that episode yet that’s linked in the description. Go check that out. When you’re done with this one. Today’s guest is Amy Neilson. She spent 20 years sharing her love of books with young readers.

On the other side of the writing aisle as a youth librarian daily [00:02:00] immersion in story took root. And she started penning her 20, 24. Why a debut worth it behind her checkout desk? She left the library. After her youngest son was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder and began writing full-time. She also began working with other authors, helping them elevate their craft. And go on to pursue publication deals while she will always enjoy pursuing her own writing goals.

Helping other authors has become a passion and she now serves as an associate literary agent at the Purcell agency. Today, she’s going to talk us through a submission that she liked why she liked it and what she wants to see in her inbox. Let’s get straight to it.

Amy, thanks so much for being part of this pitch series. I am really excited to chat with you. Thanks so much for being here. Oh,

Amy Nielsen: I’m so excited to chat with you also.

David Gwyn: Let’s start with a big question here. Why did you decide to become an agent?

Amy Nielsen: Sometimes I wonder. I’m actually going to blame my critique partners. So I have the best critique partners ever. I [00:03:00] started off as an author and met some critique partners through various Resources and we really clicked. And I think that’s very important for authors to find critique partners they really click with.

And I would find when my critique partners would send me their work, I would stop writing because I would want to see what they had done with my feedback or what their next chapter was or whatever. And. As they started getting publishing deals, I remember my first critique partner, when she got her first publishing deal, I was here, I was at home, my husband was working from home, my autistic son was here with his therapist, and she gives me the call that she got a publishing deal, and I dropped to the floor, screaming and yelling, and everyone in the house was like, what is going on?

Are you okay? And I’m like, Dana just got a publishing deal! So, I just, I love that collaborative feeling that I was able to be a part of an author’s journey to publication. So it was my critique partners that kept telling me, you should be [00:04:00] an agent, you should be an agent. And, and I started listening to them because sometimes other people recognize things in you that sometimes you don’t see in yourself.

And so I, I listened to them and pursued that. And I, I really am loving every moment of it.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s awesome. And so it sounds like. You kind of fell into agenting, but what about like the book world? I mean, did you always know you wanted to be a writer and be kind of in the publishing industry?

Amy Nielsen: Well, I started off my adult career as a librarian.

So, I was a children’s librarian for 10 years at elementary school, and then I moved to youth librarian, middle grade. And so just being surrounded by literature my entire life, when I was in college, I worked in the school libraries. I was always a reader as a teenager and so it just kind of was a natural progression.

When my youngest son was diagnosed with autism, I left my librarian job to be there to take care of him full time and started writing [00:05:00] books about autism. So I have two published books about autism. He’s now eight years old and he’s doing great. And so I’m like, it’s my time again. You know, it’s, it’s time for me to pursue my passion.

So I started penning my young adult domestic thriller, which comes out in May of 2024 and started building this writing community. And they have now written like five and six books each. And I’m still just that one young adult. So clearly being part of their writing world. It meant more to me than continuing my own writing journey, even though I love the book and I’m excited for it to come out, I just, I really love that collaboration with other authors.

It’s just, there’s nothing like it in the world to me, to be able to be someone’s cheerleader and just be the wind beneath their wings. And so that’s really what I’m super excited about. And so, actually how I ended up an agent is, again, those critique partners kept telling me. This is your path. We see it.

We see how much you’ve helped us. And [00:06:00] so I applied for an internship, did not get it, and that’s okay, right? Because it’s okay to be told no, but that didn’t deter me. So I sent my resume to an agent that I highly respected via her social media and just everything that she put out there into the writing community.

Kathy Hedrick Armstrong at the Purcell Agency. So I cold emailed her. I’m like, are you looking for an assistant? And she said yes. So her daughter was getting married. So I worked with her all summer. I’ve really learned a lot from her. She is an absolute class act. Romance authors, sub to Kathy. So, and then at the end of the summer, Tina, who is the founder of the Purcell Agency, offered me a role as an associate.

So I’ve been doing this for a hot minute, but I’m really enjoying it. I, I, I can’t imagine doing anything else for the rest of my life.

David Gwyn: Super cool. And, and what, how much can you tell us about your young adult novel worth it, which is, it’s gonna be out in 2024. What [00:07:00] can you tell us about it?

Amy Nielsen: Sure. It’s actually a little bit, you know, I’m one of those authors that has to write what I know I’m not.

As creative as my critique partners are, they can come up with these plots out of thin air. And so, when I was a teenager I found myself in an unfortunate circumstance being homeless and pregnant. And so, but, throughout that process, I, you know, Really worked hard and put myself through college and there is a domestic suspense thriller element to the story that actually I added once I fictionalized that story because, you know, when you fictionalize your past, the bad guy can get what they deserve, right?

So, so that’s what I did, but, but my daughter that I had that. At that time. She’s now 35 years old and she’s a lawyer. So life turned out great for both of us. We, you know, stopped that cycle of, of what, what I was living in. And she actually runs the book, a book [00:08:00] club for her law firm. So she was a British lit major in college.

So, so I was able to share my love of, of writing with her. So that book does come out in May of 2024 with Wild Ink Publishing, and I’m super excited about it. And the thriller element, once I, you know, threw that in there, it just really brought it next level to me. I’m super excited about that. Yeah, so I’ve got that book coming out May of 2024.

I’ve got a picture book that’s out now that’s called Goldilocks and the Three Bears Understanding Autism Spectrum Disorder. So did you know Goldilocks was autistic? I did not. Okay, well think about this. She’s eloped from her home. She doesn’t understand social norms. She goes into someone’s house without asking.

She has sensory sensitivities to temperature, texture, taste. So when I was looking for resources to teach my son’s neurotypical peers and neurotypical cousins and neighbors and community members, I, like, 4 a. m. woke up, Goldilocks is autistic! And so I wrote the book to kind of teach [00:09:00] neurotypical children about their autistic peers because One in 33 children are diagnosed on the spectrum right now.

So, and it includes a glossary of terms and some, some discussion questions to guide kids. So, that was a real passion project for me, working on that. So, that’s one of the things that I am looking for, is repping picture books. I was in elementary. Librarian for 10 years, and I shared that love of picture books with kids and just there’s nothing like it, you know, to get to share a story with a child, you know, and then as young adults as well.

But I also Love the adult space. There’s not a whole lot out there in the literature world that isn’t my jam. Yeah.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s so cool. And it’s funny. So I’m a middle school teacher. And so I, it’s, it’s interesting hearing about the ways in which we now as a school community are, are always trying to find things like that, right?

Like connections so that, that people are able to relate to their peers in a different way. More on deep way. I think that’s really interesting and hopefully you’ll come [00:10:00] back in May and and talk about your your book. That would be awesome Yeah,

Amy Nielsen: my principal at my middle school used to say there were three places that the kids ran to on campus The gym the cafeteria and my library and that was it was not a place that you had to say shh It was a place that we are chatting and we’re talking and we’re lively and I really, I do miss it, but it’s fun to be on the other end of that where I now can help rep books that are going to be in those spaces, you know, and it’s something that I take great responsibility.

form.

David Gwyn: Yeah. That’s very cool. And so you’ve got something else that you’re, you’re coauthored on, which, which we haven’t talked about yet. It feels like you’re feeling very busy over there uh, which is navigating the wild world of publishing, right? A workbook for indie and self published authors. Can you talk about?

What that’s about.

Amy Nielsen: Sure. So I co authored this book with one of my critique partners, S. E. Reid, and she and I both are published at Wild Ink Publishing, and so Abby, the owner of Wild Ink, came to us [00:11:00] and asked us to write kind of a workbook style guide to help authors. build their brand, you know, and, and sometimes, you know, a lot of times if you’re traditionally published, you may have that marketing team, but even still a lot of that does fall on the responsibility of the authors.

You know, no one’s really posting our social media or making our TikTok videos or all these things where we’re trying to reach our readers. And so Essie and I really worked hard to build something that would be a very simplistic tool. to handle a very not simplistic outcome is to build that author brand.

So we’re still working on it. We came up with a couple ideas for a few more chapters, but hopefully that resource will be out there very soon for authors.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s cool. I mean, what a great resource. And I’m a firm believer the farther I get into the traditional publishing world and talking to people and talking to authors, especially ones who their debut just came out.

I think that’s a huge misconception that a lot of authors [00:12:00] have, which is once I sign with a publisher that a lot of things will be done for you and it’s really not. And I don’t know if that was the case, you know, maybe 30, 40 more years ago, but now it’s, it really is. You got to do it all yourself.

Amy Nielsen: Yeah, a hundred percent. And so in addition to working with the Purcell agency as an associate. Literary agent. I also work with Wild Ink Publishing as a developmental editor freelance, and then I also just took on the role of publicist. So I’ll be working directly with all of our authors to help them come up with a marketing plan that fits what they’re comfortable with.

But also pushing them a little bit beyond that comfort zone, you know, so that’s, that’s kind of something that’s just started, but I think all of those things that I’m doing over at Wild Ink will ultimately benefit any author that signs with me at the Purcell agency.

David Gwyn: Yeah, I mean it’s, it’s such a, that marketing publicity piece of it is, is so important and you see a lot of books.

I think true, I think authors don’t think about, you know Publishing is [00:13:00] a business. Correct. And so if you’re, if you’re in the green, you know, you’re selling more books and you’re making a publisher money, they’re more likely to give you another deal, you’re more likely to get a better deal, like a lot of things fall into place.

And it’s just kind of the reality of where we are right now in publishing is you gotta do a lot of that work yourself. A hundred

Amy Nielsen: percent. And I tell my authors that Purcell agency or at Wild Ink or just friends that writing is personal. It’s very personal. But What you said, publishing is a business, so we have to take once we get that story out of us, it isn’t.

And often needs to be ready to switch those gears to really. Head, dive head first into the world of publishing.

David Gwyn: Yeah, yeah, super cool. And so, we got one more thing to talk about that you do, which is the Authorish Podcast. I, can you tell us like the topics you cover, how it came to be, all that good stuff?

Amy Nielsen: Yes, that is with my other critique partner, Dana Hawkins.

David Gwyn: You have some pretty cool critique, I do too, I love my critique group, but you have a pretty cool critique group.

Amy Nielsen: I I could not imagine one day [00:14:00] going by that I don’t speak with my critique partners. We are each other’s biggest fans, biggest cheerleaders, best friends.

If you don’t have a writing community, it is the, I think, the number one. And I think that’s a really important part to your success as an author. Yeah. Because they’re going to be there for you on the hard days and they’re going to encourage you on the good days. They’re going to be honest with you, but also give you the tools you need to improve.

I just, I love my critique partners so much. A

David Gwyn: lot happened for me and my group when we found each other, it makes such a huge difference. I can’t stress that enough.

Amy Nielsen: Yes. One hundred percent. So Dane and I started the Authorish podcast. Because we kind of began our critique partner relationship about at the same journey in our writing career, and I think that’s a good place to find a critique partner so you can kind of learn together.

And so what our goal is through the Authorish podcast is to give. Emerging authors, the tools that we didn’t have in the beginning. So really those basic skills about how to [00:15:00] write a query, how to, what is filter language, you know, we, we have on, we’ve had on publishers, we’ve had on authors, just really give those basic skills about the process of storytelling and the craft of writing.

So that’s, that’s kind of our goal through the Authors Podcast.

David Gwyn: Yeah, it’s cool. And if you’re listening to this for sure, finish this episode and then pop over and listen to Authorish because it is a great resource for people who are at the journey where a lot of people who are listening are right now, which is, you know, they’re querying or trying to find an agent which, which is a tough place to be.

It can feel daunting, but there’s a lot of great resources out there. I highly recommend if you’re listening, check out Authorish. It’s, it’s a great resource for, for people. So. I want to get into the submission today. It’s a lot of fun to talk about. But just before we touch on that, I want to talk like more generally, what do you look for when you when a thriller mystery crime suspense when a query like that crosses your [00:16:00] desk?

What are some things you’re looking for that really make you interested in a story?

Amy Nielsen: First off, I do love those genres. There’s not much out there that I am not interested in. Like, I love everything. I read wide and so that’s important to me. Probably, it’s easier for me to say what I’m not looking for. And then I do want to get into the craft of storytelling and the craft of writing because I have some, some feedback that I think will be helpful for emerging authors.

But, I’m looking across all age ranges. So picture book, middle grade, young adult, adult. I love all age ranges. Genre wise, most genres, except probably I’m not the best fit for epic fantasy or high concept sci fi. I think those authors and readers are the smartest in the business. And I just don’t have that.

Talent that they do to be able to hit, you know, dig into those huge world building scenarios But I totally respect those authors and those writers. What a specific skill [00:17:00] Yeah, I prefer to be grounded in the real world. Although I don’t mind paranormal or speculative, you know those sorts of things I also love horror, you know, I want to be super scared and And thriller and you know All of that.

So one thing that is important to me is I am looking for neurodiverse representation amongst our characters. It doesn’t have to be main characters. I have an autistic son. That representation is important to me. I also have a daughter that’s part of the LGBTQ plus community.

So that representation is important to me. And I really like those representations of diverse characters just coexisting within the story. Not being The plot, you know, but just because that’s in a dream world. That’s where we’re all living where we’re just all coexisting and no one really stands out because we’re all different.

So that’s that’s kind of what I’m looking for with with diverse characters. Yeah, in picture books, which I didn’t really touch on I just love to [00:18:00] see kids laugh. Even young children are going through so much and I just love to see them laugh. So if you can pitch me a book that kids are going to laugh, I’m, I’m going to be drawn to that.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s great.

Okay. Let’s pause there for a second. So far, we’ve talked about Amy’s background and how she got into the industry. I always find it so interesting how people end up in the publishing world. . They’re always so varied and different and unique.

And I feel like it gives us a better understanding of how they go about doing business. If you like this episode, you’ll love my thriller 1 0 1 opening pages checklist. I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing dozens of industry professionals about how to do this whole writing thing. I’ve compiled everything I’ve learned about writing the opening to your novel into one concise guide. It will help, you know, if you’re ready to start querying.

That checklist is linked in the description. If you want to check that out. And the next part of the interview, Amy is going to provide some insane value for writers to get the most out of [00:19:00] this. Take your time. Be sure to listen closely to the author example, we’re going to listen to now. Because Amy pulls it apart and explains everything that’s working well. Let’s get into that submission right now.

Nancy: Vessa’s imprisoned for a crime she didn’t commit to protect her granny. Until she’s body-swapped and held hostage, driving with a package thumping in the trunk. If she doesn’t deliver it, her granny will die. But her captors don’t know she’s a trained fighter. And Granny has friends.

CHAPTER 1

Nobody’s Woman

I could gouge his eye with the carrot, but I don’t want to waste it. Vegetables are hard to come by in the Deadfalls.

I step toward the merchant, his face broad and pink, slippery from his trek. “The kit was only three coins last time.”

My tone sends Sammy into fidgets on the other side of the dilapidated tram, and I know that scar of his is dimpling his cheek.

I side-chomp the carrot, cracking the tip into a jagged point.

The merchant’s voice breaks through my crunches when he says,

Don: You know what they say. Inflation and all.”

Nancy: A smile splits his face, and I want to claw it. I want him to feel some pain inside his protected little bubble.

He’s just a visitor here.

He keeps [00:20:00] smiling, and heat courses up my chest. I slam my arm to his shoulder, pressing him against the window. A groan yawns beneath us from the tracks. We freeze until it settles. Then I lean in.

“Go on. Tell me more about inflation.”

His chuckle is more of a wheeze as he eyes Sammy.

Don: “You better get your woman under control.”

Malcom: “Ah, man.”

Nancy: Sammy shakes his head and sits on a passenger seat.

I flip the carrot and whack the merchant on the forehead. “I’m nobody’s woman.”

Don: “Hey”!

Nancy: He grabs my wrist, shooting a nerve up my forearm.

Don: “I didn’t want to do this, but you’re leaving me no choice.”

Nancy: He raises his hand to strike me but stops when he feels the knife I’m holding at his ribs with my other hand.

Don: “Whoa, whoa.”

Nancy: He raises his hands.

Don: “Why don’t we all relax.”

Nancy: “Why don’t you give us fair market price?” I push in, adding another furrow to his wrinkled top.

Don: “You want it so bad?”

Nancy: He inches his hand toward his open suitcase and removes a med kit.

Don: “Here.”

Nancy: He thrusts it at me.

Don: “Just take it.”

Nancy: I snatch it, and he smacks the top of his suitcase, setting off an alarm in the skies.

He grins.

Don: “Better hurry.”

Nancy: “Come on!” Sammy grabs our bags and sprints out the door.

I throw two coins at the merchant’s feet. “That’s more than [00:21:00] it’s worth.”

The tram whines when I hop off and dart past the dispersing line of people waiting to see him.

“Thanks a lot,” someone yells after me. “Now we have to wait another month.”

Sammy’s picking up his spilled grocery bag when I catch him. I grab a rolling apple and place it inside.

Malcom: “You had to pick a fight with the merchant right after a drop, didn’t you? Couldn’t help yourself?”

Nancy: He swings the bag over his shoulder, but it tears, several apples and rolls spilling out.

“It wasn’t exactly planned.” I squat beside him, rounding up the food.

Malcom: “You know every visitor has an alarm.”

Nancy: A chopping sound splices through the alarm, and searchlights pierce through the closing dusk. Fear needles the back of my neck, and I’m tugging on Sammy’s arm.

“We have to move!”

And so let’s dive into this submission. I know we started talking before we recording. It sounds like we we have a lot to talk about. So let’s get straight to it. What was something that stood out to you even in just the opening kind of summary genre?

Comps area? Like what was it that you were like, Ooh, this has piqued my interest?

Amy Nielsen: wEll, in the summary, I thought it was really interesting that we have [00:22:00] someone that’s up there in age as one of the main characters. I loved that it’s a grandmother, so we don’t often see, you know, main characters in that age range.

So that really piqued my interest and that she had taught her daughter all these survival or granddaughter, all these survival skills, so that. That piqued my interest, but not as much as the writing itself. Before I get into what about this writing piqued my interest, because it is everything on my wish list, this bit of, this author spoke to my soul on so many levels.

And so I do want to back up just a little bit because, and tell you what I am looking for in writing, because once I get to this submission. Check, check, check, check, check, check, check. It’s she did a fantastic job. It’s like she knew what I was looking for and wrote this directly for me. So, so as far as storytelling,[00:23:00] I’ll quickly run through these because then we’ll go to the submission and I’ll show you where she did that.

I’m looking for an author to drop me in a scene right before the inciting incident. Let me know what the protagonist’s life is like. Before the thing happens that they never can go back to their previous life before they go on their hero’s journey or their quest What’s their status quo? So I’m looking for that.

I’m looking for Zero backstory in an opening scene that may not be popular amongst some authors and the reason why is because when you drop a

They don’t know where they are in time and place, who to care about, so keep me in this scene so I know, get to know this world before you pull me out of it. This author does that. Characters pursuing goals, obstacles in the way, characters interacting with each other instead of just being alone and their thoughts, tension between characters, enough [00:24:00] detail so that I’m hypothesizing what I think is going to happen, but I don’t have to be right and I sometimes love when a reader drops hints and I hypothesize something And I’m wrong.

You know, and that’s totally okay. You know, your goal isn’t to trick your reader, but it’s okay to not be right sometimes. I love a killer first line, a killer last line. A lot of times this is where you need your critique partners to help you out on the back end. Because they never want your writing to stall because you’re looking for those opening and closing lines.

But it is kind of an important way to grab an agent’s attention. As far as craft goes, I’m looking for succinct writing. A resource that I would love to share with authors is Autocrit. I have nothing to do with them, but the free version, you can upload your manuscript, you can check your sentence length, you know, and so the average general fiction sentence length is about 10.

8 words. And in the era of TikTok and short attention span, you know, we don’t want a [00:25:00] 57 word sentence in a fast paced contemporary story. Opening pages are really important to me. So, now I’ve kind of given you that little bit of of what I’m looking for. When we go through this submission, you’re going to see this author, again, just spoke to my heart.

So, I have several lines flagged, if you don’t mind me sharing and why these really spoke to me. So, first off, opening lines. I’m going to read you the first two. One’s 15 words and one’s nine words, so perfect on the word count, especially in those opening lines, keep them short. But the first line, and I know that you have read this to the listeners already, but I just want to highlight the things that just really spoke to me.

So, I could gouge his eye with the carrot, but I don’t want to waste it. Vegetables are hard to come by in the deadfalls. Oh my gosh. I so much gleaned from that. So first off, these senances are doing a ton of heavy lifting [00:26:00] for me. I know the protagonist is angry. You’re not considering gouging someone’s eyes out with a vegetable unless you’re angry.

I know the protagonist is probably, has some violent tendencies. You know, you don’t just jump from being kind to gouging someone’s eyes out. I know food is scarce without being told that, you know. Well, it is kind of told that, but in a very succinct way. And I know that I’m probably in a dystopian world based on the term deadfalls.

So I just thought those first two lines just told me so much without being overly descriptive. This next line really spoke a lot to me. My tone sends Sammy into fidgets on the other side of the dilapidated trim, and I know That the scar of his is dimpling in his cheek.

So, for me, when I read that, we don’t know who Sammy is, but I assume it’s someone she cares about. And I also started hypothesizing, like, is she responsible for the scar on his cheek? [00:27:00] Because why would she have thought about it? And I get the feeling that she cares about him because the scar’s dimpling, so she uses like a soft term.

So, these clues that the author’s dropping make me want to keep on reading. I’m curious about that. And then, the next line that literally stopped me dead in my tracks, and not that I stopped reading, But I loved it. I side chomped the carrot, cracking the tip into a jagged point. Okay, the tension is upping.

At first she has this blunt carrot, and she’s considering, you know, gouging this guy’s eyes out. Now she has bitten it into a weapon, so the tension is increasing. And the reason why, and I don’t know if the author intended this, but something that spoke to me is, is right before He’s price gouging her and so I connected that you know She’s wanting to gouge his eye because she’s being price gouged.

So that kind of spoke to me

David Gwyn: Yeah, I want to I want to just [00:28:00] highlight one of the things you said because I think especially new authors Aspiring authors people trying to put their book out there I think that they get concerned. I know I’ve been there myself. You get concerned, like, how much information and how much to hold back.

It sounds like you are in the camp of, like, hold back everything you possibly can. Like, no backstory. You know, let me hypothesize. Let me be wrong. I don’t have to be right about the opening. I think that’s really important for, for writers to hear and to think about, which is this idea that you’re, you’re not Telling a story in these first 500 words here.

You’re piquing an interest, right? You just want an agent to say, okay. Yeah. I want a little bit more. Okay. Yeah. I want a little bit more. And then all of a sudden be at the end of your five pages or 10 pages, and then they’re saying, yeah, I need a full request because I need to know how this ends and I think that’s really important for authors to hear.

Amy Nielsen: Well, and these are calculated decisions. So those first five pages, and I like to use the term like [00:29:00] risky versus less risky behavior. So it’s risky to, make your story heavy with backstory. It’s risky to have back to back lengthy paragraphs of world building or caricurse thoughts because Again, you know readers minds are gonna meander and for me, I’m vision impaired So when I see chunks and chunks and chunks and chunks of paragraphs I already feel reader fatigue even before I’ve before I’ve read it And one thing that I do as an agent is if I open up a document, a submission, and I see those chunks and chunks and chunks and chunks of paragraphs starting the submission, I scan until I see the first line of dialogue.

Because to me, that’s probably where the story starts. And not that you should start. A submission with dialogue because we don’t know who’s talking and the tone, but that’s probably where the story really starts. So that’s just a tip that I’ve kind of wanted to [00:30:00] pass out there look at your first chapter.

If you have paragraph after paragraph after paragraph of just exposition, where’s your first line of dialogue? Because that’s probably where the story starts.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s great advice to look for, for sure, for

Amy Nielsen: people to look for. So back to the submission. So I, when, when she says I side chomped the carrot, cracking the tip into a jagged point, like, like I said, we’ve got that tension.

One thing, one thing that I think the author did here very well is sensory detail. And it’s not filtered. They’re using filtering language. So I have tasted carrots. I’ve bitten into them. We all have. And the way she writes it is that You can taste carrot. You can feel what it’s like to sink your teeth into that.

So I thought that sensory detail was very subtle, but it was there, you know, and again that, that tension has upped because now, you know, she’s, she’s seriously considering getting a little bit more violent, which she does. So, [00:31:00] she’s upped the tension even more when she pulls out that knife. And, and, and so, Being that it’s getting a lot of attention happening, I loved when the author added this line I flip the carrot and whack the merchant on the forehead.

I’m nobody’s woman. So then we have a little bit of comic relief and I laughed out loud at that. You know, that to me was, was a moment that I needed to take a breath because the tension was getting so high. So that was very well placed in that bit of tension. There was a place that the author did a huge amount of character building.

In a very short period of time. So at first I didn’t know what she was wanting from this merchant. And then later you find out it’s this medical kit. You don’t know why. Like, is the Sammy person that she’s with injured? Is someone injured? Is someone sick? Is it medicine? We don’t know why and that’s fine.

We don’t need to know. Because I want to keep reading to find out. But the merchant gives it to her when she pulls out the knife. So she [00:32:00] could have run off with it. But she doesn’t. She gives him two coins. She pays him what it was worth. So. So, even though she’s painted so far as this very aggressive, very violent character, we see something in her that, you know, shows a bit of humanity.

But even in that moment, she’s not going to steal that. She, she wants to do the right thing. So, I really loved that. Well, well, well done. And the last thing I have to say is that, at the very end, This phrase just was everything to me. Fear needles the back of my neck. I just loved that. So many times authors tend to overly describe emotion and physical sensations and it’s because we want to make sure the message gets across loud and clear to our reader.

We all do it. But here she gives just enough to show everything. So I love that. So yeah, this author [00:33:00] actually wrote. Directly to me, I’m sure.

David Gwyn: Yeah. That’s awesome. So let me ask you, I was really interested when I read this, we’re getting a lot of action right away. And I’m curious, are you inherently kind of looking for that because of the genre, or is this something that was just well done in that way and it kind of like made sense for the character and for this plot?

Amy Nielsen: I think for all genres, for me, I’m looking for the succinct writing, because, there’s a quote that I wrote down that I wanted to read to you. So, for me, as a reader, as a former librarian, you know, I’ve kind of been in this industry since, I was, you know, in my early 20s I kind of liken it to when I was a librarian, every year when the new books would come in, I would go through my shelves and weed out what kids weren’t reading anymore, what, you know, obsolete materials, you know, you don’t want a book in the library that says someday we’ll go to the moon when we’ve already done [00:34:00] that.

And so, and also books that had been tattered and torn that maybe it’s time to replace. So you weed through your library. So the stuff that’s important shines. The stuff that’s reflective of your current patron. So I try to get that message across to to authors. And so here’s the quote that kind of succinctly does that.

So every word not needed in a sentence for the reader to understand what is happening is a word that risks confusing them. So I truly believe that every word that’s in a sentence that doesn’t need to be there is, is risking confusing. Your reader. So, as a reader, as an agent, as a developmental editor, I am in all genres looking for that succinct language.

And, backstory comes through in subtext. So, this author clearly knows the backstory of these characters, but we don’t need it on the page to feel [00:35:00] it. You know, and later on, you have 300 more pages to get the important backstory across, but for me, in these opening pages, I think it slows down the pace, and clearly the inciting incident hasn’t happened yet, it’s not this, you know, there’s a crime that’s later committed based on the summary, so, you know, we’re building up to that, but Starting close to that inciting incident where there is tension on the page and this is her normal life, right?

Her normal life is going to buy things from this merchant, I’m assuming. With Sammy in tow. Yeah. And at some point that’s Trying not to get ripped off. Yeah. At some point that’s not going to be the case anymore. So

David Gwyn: let me ask you then in so we’re looking at the first page and a half or so, what are you hoping to see in the next just five to seven pages even from this author and from this story?

Amy Nielsen: What I’m hoping to see is, first off, I’m very curious about the relationship between the [00:36:00] protagonist and Sammy. Like, are they siblings? Are they friends? Are they love interests? I really want to know about their relationship. And. And their roles within that relationship because it looks like she’s more of the protector.

And so what’s his role in this relationship? Because he’s there with her for a reason. So I’m really curious about that relationship. And the author did a good job of planting those curiosity seeds, so I am. I’m very curious as to why she was there to purchase this medical kit. You know, what does that look like?

Down the road, you know, like I say, is there someone injured? Is there medicine that the Sammy needs? Like I’m really curious about that So those are my biggest questions when I got to the end of this that I’m ready to have answered next

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s great. And I feel like I think for a lot of the reasons that you pointed out all the reasons you pointed out This this author clearly I think like you said like knows these things and is purposely holding them back and and to an extent that we’re [00:37:00] curious what even the relationship is between, between these two characters, which I think is really interesting to think about.

I’m a, I’m like a serial overwriter. Like I, my first draft is always like 100, 000 words and I’m like cutting things out.

Amy Nielsen: Your first draft should be. Yeah. Because that’s where you are figuring out the story and you are world building on the page.

And so, I believe that overwriting is a very important part of the process. I think for most authors, and you should freely allow yourself to do that. As you’re exploring your characters, and your world, and your plot, and all of that. And then it’s time to come back, and you know, my friend Essie Reed.

She has great advice for authors in this part of the process. She uses what she calls a cutbook. So she writes the first draft freely and then she starts cutting a lot of that backstory and over description that maybe isn’t really needed and she puts it in this cutbook because you never know where that content could be useful somewhere else.

Maybe it’s the beginning of a short [00:38:00] story or maybe the start of the new manuscript idea.

David Gwyn: Oh, that’s a cool idea.

This, this has been awesome. I want, my last question for you is just where can people find you? Where can people look you up?

Amy Nielsen: Sure. So, my website is www.amynielsen.Com and I have links there to writing advice, I have links there to my manuscript wish list, to, I love to write short stories, you know, and, and I, All of them are very succinct language and, you know, if authors are kind of interested and I’m kind of looking for the type of style that I write, it’s also how I feel I can best help authors with succinct writing.

Because it’s, it’s, it’s what I really, really, really enjoy. I also have a link there to my, My autism blog, if anybody’s curious about that and again, I’m, I’m looking for characters that are neurodiverse. I do some autism sensitivity reading for authors as well, you know, kind of as a freelance service, I can’t then rep those, you know, authors.

But I, [00:39:00] I, I really enjoy helping elevate the authenticity of diverse characters and I, you know, that’s, that’s one that I can do and then . Yeah. So that’s on Twitter, which is where I’m most active socially is Amy Nielsen, oh six or XI guess, as we call it. . . I’m trying to, you know, dabble with, I

David Gwyn: think everyone’s doing it too.

Everyone’s kind of like Twitter or X or whatever you call it. That’s, yeah, that’s right know. bUt yeah, if you’re listening and you wanna get in touch with Amy, I will link to all that stuff in the description. Go check it out. Amy, this has been amazing. I, I feel like I’ve learned so much about the writing process and.

Just opening pages and just, just really honestly writing in general. So I really can’t express enough how, how much I enjoyed this. Well,

Amy Nielsen: and I appreciate the opportunity to, to chat with you this evening. It’s been awesome. And hopefully some of the tips that I share will help querying authors, you know, get a little step ahead in their game.

And, you know, I, when I was in the querying trenches and I was there for about two years. Every, and I prefer to call them passes instead of [00:40:00] rejections, every pass I’d get, even if it was just a form pass, and sometimes that’s part of the process, I’d go back to my manuscript and do one thing, one thing, if it’s cut one word, if it’s revise a comp, just something to elevate, what I had done, you can pull any book off of a library shelf, and there’s always something you can do to make it better, so just use those opportunities to always be working towards improving, and eventually, your yes will come.

David Gwyn: Yeah. That’s awesome. And so here we are, if you’re listening, we are, we are at the end or almost the end. And so really right as soon as we’re done, go over and listen to the Authorish podcast. Like go there, find something that speaks to you. I’m sure there’ll be something that, that you will find value in.

Cause Amy, obviously you’ve listened now for a little while and, and you can tell that she’s got a lot to share. So Amy, thanks again. I really, really appreciate it.

Amy Nielsen: Thank you, Dave.

It was great speaking with you.

David Gwyn: Okay. And that’s it. Like I said, Amy provides some great value here. Next time on the podcast, I’ll be talking to Mandy McHugh about how she pulled off some of the most fun dialogue I’ve read in a thriller [00:41:00] novel in a long time.

Mandy McHugh: And then I had also read a ton of thrillers where somebody kills somebody, but very few where, like, you have this plan, you’re going to do this plan, and it gets thwarted.

David Gwyn: So be sure to subscribe if you haven’t already. So you don’t miss when that episode drops.

And remember if you liked this episode, you’ll love my thriller 1 0 1 opening pages checklist. I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing so many industry professionals about how to pull off this whole writing thing. So I’ve compiled everything I’ve learned about writing the opening of your novel into this concise guide.

It will help, you know, if you’re ready to query.

That’s LinkedIn description. If you want to check it out. I’ll see you next time.