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🗓 Last Time

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🎙 Interview

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📇 Biography

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📜 Transcript

Alex Kenna: [00:00:00] People want to read characters that are nuanced. They have backstories They have motivations I think for me I’m actually a pretty fast writer But I have to spend a long time ruminating on things and kind of developing the backstory and figuring out who’s who so that’s kind of the challenge

David Gwyn: So I firmly believe that quality thrillers, mysteries, suspense, and crime fiction do this thing where there’s tension in the main plot, or what I call the professional aspect of the story. This is the dead body or missing person plotline, the one that we know happens in thrillers, mysteries, suspense, and crime fiction, but the thing that differentiates really great stories is that.

There’s also this running tension in the main character’s personal life that makes them feel more real. It has to be done well, though, and that’s what we’re talking about today. In this episode, you’ll learn how Alex balanced the personal and professional tension in her story and how she developed the kind of backstory necessary to keep that tension high and keep readers on the edge of their seats throughout the entirety of her [00:01:00] novel.

That way, you’ll be able to apply it to your story. I’m David Gwyn, an agent and writer navigating the world of traditional publishing. During this first season of the Thriller 101 podcast, we’re going to focus on building the skills necessary to write the kinds of thrillers that land you an agent and readers.

I’m talking to agents, authors, and other industry professionals about the best way to write a novel. If you want the expert secrets, this is where you’re going to find them. Last week on the podcast, I talked to Roxie Key about how she used a prologue and a tightly plotted first chapter to start her debut novel off with a bang.

Roxie Key: I just wanted to try and drop straight into the action, and that was part of the feedback that I had from my agent in the editorial process, was let’s just cut a bit of this and just get straight to it.

But you obviously wanted to still build up a little bit of the character and the setting as well. There is a balance, but it can be quite hard to get quite right, so hopefully I’ve done it.

David Gwyn: If you want to listen to that interview, it’s linked in the description. Today’s guest is Alex Kenna. She’s a mystery writer, [00:02:00] prosecutor, and amateur painter based in Los Angeles. Her first novel, What Meets the Eye, was a 2023 Seamus Award finalist for best first PI novel.

Her second novel, Burn This Night, is coming November 2024. And I personally cannot wait to read it. Let’s get to the interview.

So Alex, thanks so much for being here. I’m really excited to chat with you.

Alex Kenna: Yeah. Thank you for having me. This is great.

David Gwyn: Yeah. So I’m excited to talk about your novel, what meets the eye and then also your upcoming release, which is coming out in November. And so can you tell us what, let’s start at the beginning here.

Tell us what, what meets the eye is about.

Alex Kenna: Yeah. It the main character, she’s a struggling private detective. She’s a former LAPD officer who left the job after she had a car accident that basically resulted in chronic pain. She ended up losing custody of her child. And then she gets hired to look into the suicide of this famous, mysterious artist, which is, you know, it’s not a huge spoiler to say that it’s not a suicide, but that’s kind of the general premise.

But it [00:03:00] was, it was kind of a way for me to bring in two sides of my background. I went to art school and studied art history before law school. And you know, I remember being in my twenties and being a, you know, an egomaniacal failed artist with all these ideas. I wanted to kind of, Be able to embody that for the character of Margo, who’s my victim, but we have some chapters from her perspective.

And then, now I’m, I work in prosecution, so I wanted to kinda bring some of my law enforcement background into it in the, in the form of Kate. But, it’s yeah, it was fun to work on.

David Gwyn: Yeah, it sounds like a really, like a really clear like blending of, of what what you do. And it’s funny, whenever I talk to people on here it always feels like that.

It’s always like, two merging parts of their background that form into either the plot or the character or whatever it is. So tell us, tell us about burn this night, which comes out in November and, and just give us a little sense of what that book’s about.

Alex Kenna: So it’s, it’s. Kind of the sequel. I bring back Kate, but I also wrote it to function as a standalone, so you don’t really have to read one [00:04:00] before the other. But in this one, she’s, I was very interested in some of these criminal cases that have been solved from DNA discoveries. So in this case, my husband and I, we ended up doing some home renovations and staying in this tiny town in San Bernardino and, because, you know, writers have, messed up brains, I’ve kind of thought like, wow, this place is gorgeous, I’d love to kill someone here.

So, I needed to kind of find a way to, To get Kate out into this random town. So she kind of, she learns that she has this distant genetic connection to the killer in a cold case and ends up being brought on to look into that cold case. And at the same time, she’s hired by the family of this mentally ill man who is accused of starting a wildfire that ended up killing his sister.

And that was also partly just because, you know, We had to evacuate our house a few years ago because I live in, in Southern California and we have, we have wildfires all the time. So I had kind of smoke on the brain at the time. But it’s yeah, it’s, it’s pretty dark. And it’s a little bit [00:05:00] different plot wise from, from what meets the eye, but has kind of a similar structure.

David Gwyn: That’s cool. What, what part of the process are you with that book now? Is that done ready to go like on the press, or are you still going through copy edits? Like, where are you?

Alex Kenna: No, it’s actually, it’s available on net galley as of Wednesday. So if anybody out there is interested you can read it and you don’t have to read the first one first.

So yeah, it’s, yeah, it’s available and it’s it’s coming out in November.

David Gwyn: That’s awesome. So what are you working on now?

Alex Kenna: So kind of a similar inspiration. I guess you, you know, you, you go places, you think they’re wonderful and you want to kill someone. So I my husband and I, like we take my son a lot in the early mornings by this this racetrack where you can kind of watch the jockeys working out and it’s this beautiful art deco racetrack and , they sell breakfast, so it’s like, it’s basically like a lot of like old Gambling addicts in their 60s watching jockeys, plus my toddler in me.

But I kind of became a little bit obsessed with that world and wanted to set something there. So my main character is a a female ex jockey, which is [00:06:00] something I learned. It’s, it’s this it’s one of the few sports where women really compete as equals because the horse does.

the, a lot of the work. And she’s an ex jockey who had a devastating injury and ended up going into law school and becoming a prosecutor. And then you know, someone from her past ends up , dying, and she kind of gets sucked back into that world. But Definitely in still in the early stages of of drafting that.

David Gwyn: That’s very exciting. And so I love to have authors who are on here give their agents a shout out And so I’ll ask you just like what you like working with Liza Royce agency, right?

Alex Kenna: Yeah, it’s been wonderful. And I, I have to say I sold my, my first book without an agent, which you know, that was, that was a totally different situation.

I, you know, I’d gotten my, my slew of rejections that most people are familiar with in this process. And then I was literally about to go have a baby and I thought, you know, well F it and just sent it to a publisher. And you know, by pure chance, the person reading the slush pile was an art fan. So that worked out.

But you know, It’s really night and [00:07:00] day. I think having somebody in your corner and also you know, one thing I really appreciate about, , Liza and this agency in particular is that she’s really a straight shooter and tells you what she thinks. And, you know, if you have a, if there’s a book idea that doesn’t work, she’ll say so.

If there’s a, you know, if it’s proposed title that she thinks is problematic, she’ll say so. And I think that you know, Have, I think that’s probably the most important thing because sometimes as writers, you know, we, we get so caught up in our own heads and we, you know, we kind of go back and forth between thinking all of our deals are wonderful and all of our deals are terrible and, you know, having somebody who will, you know, both fight for you and be, be honest with you you know, and, and genuinely cares about, you know, your work and your success and, you know, wherever you are in the process is just really important.

David Gwyn: Okay, let’s pause there for a second. So before we’ve heard about how Alex created this story and what she’s working on now,

and I found that conversation really interesting. In the next part of the interview, she’s going to reveal that important balancing act between the professional plot and personal plot that I was talking about earlier. But before we get there, [00:08:00] June is Thriller 101 giveaway month. This month, I’ll be giving away all sorts of things from query letter feedback, to opening pages feedback, to some never before shared resources.

Thank you That I personally developed when working with my agent on my debut novel. And it’s something I still use now that I’m working through my next project.

I’ll also personally be working with authors who want to start an email list And we’ll be talking about how to develop that and create a time conscious newsletter that quite frankly doesn’t suck. The only way you can get access to all this though is by being a newsletter subscriber for Thriller 101.

There’s a link in the description to get there. Let’s get your book published together. We’ve published a new contributor to Thriller 101. Viviana shares her querying experience, which is, I have to say, pretty unusual and unique. So you’ll definitely have to check it out, but here’s a sneak peek from her article.

She says,

I then queried agents that, beyond wanting my genre, had nothing in common with my novel. I created mood boards, engaged with the [00:09:00] writing community on Twitter, and participated in pitch events. As with most things in life, the little efforts here and there began to compound. I started getting interests and requests through all channels. Twitter, a writing conference I attended, and cold querying. And writer friends, believe me when I say interest breeds interest.

Her article is really interesting and provides great advice.

David Gwyn: Plus, if you want to see her impressive query stats and even read the query letter that got so much agent attention, down to the description where you’ll find the link to that article. Let’s head back to the interview.

I want to talk a little bit about what meets the eye.

And, and also you know, the, the sequel or the kind of sequel standalone Burn This Night, because you use a private investigator angle. And it’s funny when I was reading that, opening scene with Kate in What Meets the Eye, it has this like traditional noir mystery feel to it.

You know, she’s sitting in an office, someone comes in with a case. I thought it worked so well, and I thought it really set the tone for, for the novel as well. And so [00:10:00] I’m curious why you decided to go that route and why you think it works so well.

Alex Kenna: Yeah. Well, I should say Kate started out as a male police officer, so things definitely evolved a lot.

But I think just in terms of like, Finding a character who I felt like I was well suited to write I felt like I was in a weird place for writing a traditional police procedural because I kind of didn’t quite know enough to get all the details right, but I knew enough to know when I was kind of botching things and it, it worked.

You know, I kind of got to the point, I’m like, wait, is that, is that the procedure that they use, or use that term? And I thought, no, this isn’t, you know, so I wanted to have someone who was kind of law enforcement adjacent you know, because, you know, I understand the basics, and so I thought someone who was an ex cop would be you know, a good place to go.

She understands how to do investigations you know, she understands how to think about, , Different types of crimes that can be charged. You know, but at the same time, she’s slightly outside of that world. And I think, you know, in terms of of just P. I. Novels in general, like you know, You know, [00:11:00] part of the reason I think they, they’re so popular and they keep coming back is just because, if you’re gonna have a recurring character, it’s gotta be somewhere in where it’s believable that this person keeps, you know, dealing with bodies and criminals.

And I think it can be hard when your the children’s librarian who likes cats, once you get to, you know, body number four, it’s like. That’s quite the coincidence. Not, not that those books aren’t wonderful and massively entertaining. But you know, I was just kind of thinking about like, if this is.

Something that’s going to have a lot of different storylines, what’s a way to kind of make it plausible and believable that, , this character keeps encountering bodies without, unless she’s secretly a serial killer.

David Gwyn: Yeah. That’s funny. So do you have, do you have any plans to go back

Alex Kenna: to Kate

David Gwyn: or do you think two books is enough with her?

I

Alex Kenna: would love to go back to her. I’m just, I, right now I’m, I’m working on a different character, but I’m certainly, I might start simultaneously working on one with her and, and just kind of see which one gets finished quicker. [00:12:00]

David Gwyn: And what do you think is the hardest part about because now you’re doing kind of a standalone, obviously the second book you did was with Kate.

What do you think is the hardest part about writing like a standalone now that you have this kind of established character?

Alex Kenna: I think it’s always hard. I think start, honestly, I think starting any new book is, is hard. Part of it is just, I think, you know, writers all have imposter syndrome.

So, it doesn’t matter how many books you’ve published. You think, Oh my God, can I, can I write a book I think with, with a new character, it’s also, you, you want to make sure you’re not just writing, you know, the same character with a new name, you know, at this time, she’s a blonde, you have to kind of.

Make sure that’s you want people want to read characters that are nuanced. They have backstories They have motivations I think for me I’m actually a pretty fast writer But I have to spend a long time ruminating on things and kind of developing the backstory and figuring out who’s who so that’s kind of the challenge and and you know What I’m working on now, originally I had two characters who were both kind of eccentric.

And I thought, well what [00:13:00] if I merge them and I make one person who’s a total weirdo? Which is working better, I think. So, you know, I think anytime you start a new thing, it’s it’s just a little bit of a of a challenge.

David Gwyn: It actually leads in really well to my next question, which is really about the conflict in your main character’s life and how you had that kind of play alongside the main conflict in the story.

And I think, you know, really good thrillers, mysteries, suspense, , crime fiction. They do this where there’s like tension within the main plot line, usually around a missing person or a dead body or something. And then there’s this also like running tension in the character’s personal life that I think it makes them feel more real and also ramps up the tension just kind of in the story.

And I know this is like kind of a long winded way of asking my question, which is just how do you decide on on character backstory and how did you use it to ramp up tension alongside the main plot?

Alex Kenna: Yeah, I think part of it I’ve always been interested in people who who start over and you’ve had a totally different life Like I I remember being in law [00:14:00] school and there was this You know, beautiful, glamorous professor who used to be go to circus camp.

And it was just, it was fascinating. I’m like, you’re obsessed with civil procedure, which if anybody’s ever suffered through law school and I don’t recommend it, I would rather go to the dentist and have a colonoscopy in the same day than ever experienced that nightmare again. But, you know, this is a person who is probably probably done trapeze stunts.

You know, I don’t know if she was ever been a clown and now she’s, you know, this. You know, technical genius and that, you know, that, that type of people who’ve kind of started over have always been completely fascinating to me. And I think when I was, when I was writing Kate, it was also I, a lot of it was during the pandemic.

I had left a job that I really loved for, you know, a variety of reasons, but had a new job where, you know, all of a sudden, basically right after starting, I was at home and then I was pregnant and then I got gestational diabetes and I basically couldn’t leave my house cause I was super high risk. So I was just, You know, alone in my room, you know, not drinking or eating [00:15:00] sugar away from my previous work friends.

And I was like, wow, everything is gone. So I thought, well, let me create a character who I can torture more than me. And who has also kind of had to start over from scratch. Yeah. So that was a big motivator for her, I think. And I was also I wanted to kind of write somebody who was An imperfect mother.

Like a good mother, but an imperfect mother. I think in part just, you know, with traditional PI fiction and a lot of traditional noir mysteries, you know, there’s always like the kid, you know, the dad goes and gets hammered on whiskeys and then shows up the next day and gives him like a pat on the head and, you know, the wife says something, the ex wife says something bitchy and then he floats out the door and it’s fine.

And you can’t really get away with that. with women. But, you know, I wanted to have somebody who was, you know, she in this case, Kate had struggled with opioid addiction after she, you know, her back was completely messed up in a car accident, ends up losing custody. And she’s someone who’s really true, who loves her kid.

[00:16:00] She’s trying her best, but she’s also still trying to get custody back. She has ADHD, so she’s a little spacey. He doesn’t always remember to, you know, wash the kid’s face. I’m a little spacey too. So that was incorporated, but I wanted to kind of have a female character who has I guess maybe a milder version of, of certain flaws that a lot of these kind of hard boiled male male characters get away with, you know, maybe even to excess just to, you know, kind of, kind of see how that worked.

If you flip the gender dynamic.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s very cool. And, and really. played well, I think for her character and made her feel really real. While also really highlighting the flaws in a way that I think made her fun to read, and so my last question for you is just where can people find you? Where can people look you up?

Alex Kenna: Yeah, I’m I’m on Twitter. I’m attempting to be on Instagram, but my my life consists of dirty dishes and toddlers, so my picture ability is not wonderful. And I also, I should say on my website AlexKenna.Com, I started a blog recently, although I’m several weeks delinquent just posting Query letters for [00:17:00] books that either got an agent or book deal.

Cause I’ve been in the, I’ve been in the trenches. I, my heart, if anybody’s out here, they’re trying to query a book right now. I gotta say, you know, this is what means thighs. The second book I wrote, first one didn’t sell. You know, I’ve, I’ve written the query letters. It’s incredibly hard. And I just wanted to create a resource for people who are looking for that of just, of examples that worked.

Cause it’s something that I wish had been around. When I was kind of at that phase, so you can check out my and, go through some query letters that are written by, you know, much smarter people than I am. Or you can find me on Twitter.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s awesome. And I’ll link to a bunch of that stuff.

And I mean, what a great resource for, for people. And a lot of people who listen to this podcast are querying right now, they’re, they’re looking for an agent or looking for a publisher. And so. I’ll link to that for sure so people have quick access and if you’re listening to this before November of 2024, definitely read What Meets the Eye and if you’re with us after November , definitely check out Burn This Night.

I’m really looking forward to it. I can’t wait to check it out and see [00:18:00] what happens. So, Alex, thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us.

Alex Kenna: Thank you for having me. This

David Gwyn: Okay, so that’s it. Do you see what I mean about how important it is to have these two layers of tension in your story? It’s something that can absolutely set your story apart if you’re querying.

Don’t forget to sign up to the link in the description to be a newsletter subscriber to get all these exclusive Thriller 101 giveaways and I will see you next week.