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🗓 Previously…

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🎙 Interview

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📇 Biography

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📜 Transcript

David Gwyn: So today on Thriller 101, I’m joined by debut author Marisa Walz, whose new novel, good intentions will be out by the time you are all listening to this.

In this conversation, we’re gonna explore how she develops the suspense in novel, why sometimes the scariest villains are the ones who mean well and what it’s really like to be a debut in the thriller world. So Marisa, thanks so much for being on the Thriller 1 0 1 Podcast.

Marisa Walz: Yeah. Thank you for

David Gwyn: Yeah, very excited to chat with you.

I, I’d love to start first with just having you tell us a little bit about what good intentions is about.

Marisa Walz: Sure. Yeah. So good intentions is a psychological suspense drama about a luxury event planner who becomes obsessed with a woman. She encounters in a hospital waiting room. And the story is one of obsession but it begins in the midst of a terrible tragedy, two terrible tragedies actually. So lots of different emotions in this book.

It’s really heavy on themes of grief, [00:01:00] obsession moral ambiguity. My my main character Katie, is totally unhinged. She tries to be good but she just can’t help herself, and her downward spiral is so excruciating to watch, but at the same time, I hope readers will still be rooting for her right up until that last minute twist is revealed.

David Gwyn: Nice. Yeah. And, and for people who have been longtime listeners of, of good, of the thriller one, one podcast, this, this might sound a little bit familiar because. We actually featured your query letter and opening pages on a previous episode with an agent and it got picked by an agent. So I feel like it’s not at all surprising to now be here talking with you about your book because that selection process was really difficult.

There were a lot of queries and, and the fact that an agent you know, identified your book as having a ton of promise it’s, again, it’s no surprise that we’re here having this conversation. So tell me a little bit about where this, where the idea for this story came about.

Marisa Walz: Oh wow. So that’s a question I obviously get a [00:02:00] lot. I know a lot of authors get that question

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: but for this book, it’s hard to give. The full true answer without giving away the big twist. So I’ll

David Gwyn: Love it. Yeah.

Marisa Walz: yeah, the actual story and everything, driving the plot toward its final gut wrenching conclusion.

It was inspired by a traumatic experience I once had, and what happened, left me with all these questions for years and years, but chief among them was, can good people do bad things? Is that possible? And I really wanted to believe so, and I knew that one day I wanted to write a story that tackles that question,

David Gwyn: Hmm.

Marisa Walz: I didn’t exactly know how to go about doing that. So I just went about my business writing some other psychological suspense novels. And those kind of just went nowhere. Maybe a few bites from agents and editors, but really went

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: then one night, a couple years ago. I read a book that felt like it [00:03:00] was written just for me and my taste. It’s my favorite book I’ve ever read. I loved every single line of this book. I loved the way the first line dug its claw into me. I loved the way the very Lance line haunted me, and that book was The Push by Ashley Audra, was actually her debut. And I could not sleep that night that I finished it, David, because I knew that that was the kind of story I wanted to write.

I wanted to write a book that made people feel the way I felt reading the push. I wanted readers to feel devastated and challenged. And entranced, and I wanted them to race through to the end, but also savor every moment. And then, so it just all started coming together in my head that night. So

David Gwyn: Hmm.

Marisa Walz: real life experience that I’d had and all those big questions that I had been left with about people being good, but also being capable of really bad

David Gwyn: Mm-hmm.

Marisa Walz: it all just started coming together with [00:04:00] that inspirational spark and became. Good

David Gwyn: Hmm.

Marisa Walz: I literally stayed up that whole night after finishing the Push and I plotted this whole

David Gwyn: Oh, wow.

Marisa Walz: did not sleep. I could not sleep until I had it all figured

David Gwyn: Oh, that’s amazing. I, I love that story. I, I feel like I hear, I feel, I obviously, I hear so many talking to authors about where the stories came from. It’s fun to hear one that is such like a strike of inspiration. A lot of people talk about, and, and it kind of actually is a little bit your, in your story too.

The way two or three things that are floating around in their head kind of smash together and become one, and that tends to be. How, how a lot of people write books. And it sounds like that was somewhat of your experience in that you had this experience, you had this kind of story that, that created all this like smashing together and you were like ready to go.

so are you much of a plotter or are you usually a pants? Like how does that work? Okay.

Marisa Walz: So it’s evolved so

David Gwyn: Okay.

Marisa Walz: I, good Intentions was the fifth book I

David Gwyn: [00:05:00] Hmm.

Marisa Walz: And the first one, I definitely, well, the very first one I ever tried to write, I totally pantsed it. I was just going off vibes and I know some people can do that. I cannot do it this. And so the first one, like in true Virgo fashion, I plotted every single thing out. And then it’s really just evolved a whole bunch since then. And I would say where I’m at right now, I think I’m finally starting to find my sweet spot. And I think that is like I have to know. major question, I have to know

David Gwyn: Mm-hmm.

Marisa Walz: and how it ends. ’cause I really like, like those full circle moments where you’re like, you’re kind of coming back to the same

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: but like things are flipped and I, I really like to try to be able to pull that off in, in my books.

David Gwyn: Mm-hmm.

Marisa Walz: so I like to know where I’m beginning. Where I’m ending like some major plot points or twists along the way. Really just to kind of like have like a rough idea of how that all comes about before I start writing. So I’m definitely more of a combination

David Gwyn: Hmm.

Marisa Walz: And [00:06:00] then once I actually start writing, what I have found to be super helpful for my productivity and so that I’m not really forcing anything but still able to write every single day I will hop all around.

So I will, I will write the first chapter. Then I will write the last chapter. That’s how my last few books have

David Gwyn: Wow.

Marisa Walz: out really well for me. And then I will go back to chapter two and I’ll try and write that, but if I’m not feeling it, I’ll go to whatever chapter I have a clear vision

David Gwyn: Oh wow.

Marisa Walz: could be chapter 37,

David Gwyn: Mm-hmm.

Marisa Walz: two, could be the second to last chapter, and, and that’s how I will write.

David Gwyn: Yeah. I love that.

Marisa Walz: I, I think that’s gonna be my sweet spot now, but who

David Gwyn: Yeah,

Marisa Walz: the next book could be

David Gwyn: who knows?

Marisa Walz: Yeah, it’s, it’s a wild journey, so who

David Gwyn: I love that. I, I tell people all the time yeah, I obviously hear a lot of stories about how, how books are written. And I tell people all the time like that because I’ve heard so many stories from different authors on, on how the, the book happens. I always tell people.

I, I know it’s [00:07:00] fun to listen to authors talk about how they wrote their book and then try to model their, you know, their process, whatever it is. But because there are so many, it almost doesn’t matter what you do as long as you get the book written. So, like, whatever you need to do to get the next book out.

Like, that’s, that’s what you need to do. Don’t worry. You know, you don’t, you don’t have to sit there and worry about, is this the right process? Like, no, just get the book written and then that’s it. That’s the only thing you have to do.

Marisa Walz: Yeah. There’s no wrong or right way and like whatever Yeah, you have to do to be able to

David Gwyn: Mm-hmm.

Marisa Walz: single day in whatever order that that’s the best way.

David Gwyn: Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. So let’s, let’s dig, dig into characters here a little bit. ’cause I, I think that’s a really interesting place to go because I think that this that your story, because it has like that kind of slow burn suspense, like psychological aspect the characters carry so much weight of that story.

And so I’d, I’d love to hear, kind of like when you’re, when you’re trying to develop a protagonist that readers are supposed to read and, and kind of root for to a certain degree, but [00:08:00] maybe make some unsettling choices along the way. Like how are you balancing that kind of balancing act between you know, writing a character that we as readers wanna read but also maybe aren’t making the best decisions the whole time?

Marisa Walz: Yeah, it is a tricky balance and you know. Not every character is for everybody. So like Kinky iss, an unlikable character. Okay. And some people really like un unlikeable characters, which I realize is an oxymoron. I’m one of those people I, I like, I don’t want like to follow some like boring angel around who makes like really good decisions.

I, I really like those more controversial and provocative. Main characters and, and it is a difficult balance and you’re never gonna be just right for anybody. But like, I think the best thing that you can do is try to find a character that would be realistic. So like the bad things that they’re in the [00:09:00] book, you can portray it in a way where you could feel like,

David Gwyn: Mm-hmm.

Marisa Walz: circumstances, those same decisions, even though they’re like bad decisions that most of us

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: make. If, if you can somehow provide the backstory and context so that somebody could feel like possibly they could understand how such. A horrible thing, could be

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: character that we otherwise like and are rooting

David Gwyn: Yeah,

Marisa Walz: I think, I think that’s the most important thing, because that’s also the thing that not only makes it relatable, but also a little bit scary is like, could I possibly be capable of something like that

David Gwyn: yeah. No, I love that. I, and it kind of [00:10:00] brings out the next. Part of this too, which it feels like maybe for you, it was this balance of character and plot, right? That they were, that this character was put in a situation that really forced them to act in a certain way. And that, that, that even if we wouldn’t necessarily act in a certain way, we understand why that character is acting in that way.

And so talk to me a little about, about plot here. When you’re going through and plotting a story like this. Did you have that plot beginning to end like set? Or was this something where you were like, I need to have my character do something, say something here because it balances kind of pacing point of view, that kind of stuff.

I,

Marisa Walz: so I, did go into good intentions with a full plot because like I told you, I had such a

David Gwyn: yeah.

Marisa Walz: going in. To that story that like within a couple days I had every single chapter this was gonna happen and this was gonna happen. I had it all plotted out. Of [00:11:00] course, that’s never like, even if you’re a plotter, you never like, because, ’cause good ideas always come up, Ponta, like the best

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: up spontaneously and it’s like one thing builds off of another and you think of different. You know, things along the way that you can go back and add in. That’s my

David Gwyn: Mm-hmm.

Marisa Walz: My favorite part of writing is to like add in like layers and textures and just to go over and reread and rewrite everything over

David Gwyn: Hmm.

Marisa Walz: and over again. So you can just slip little fun nuggets in there. So yeah, I definitely went in with a plan and then I stuck to it for the first draft and it worked out great and I thought I had something really good and then I got some. Like beta reader feedback and some agent feedback and the, you know, that, that definitely changed the story and I don’t know that that’s really helpful because it definitely, that process definitely churned the book into a better, more layered, textured book. How [00:12:00] like you have to be kind of. Careful with how much input you get too, because at some point it ends up looking like a pizza with like, there’s a little pepperoni over here and then some sausage gets added, but then like you start getting like cotton candy and m and ms and like chicken wings on the pizza.

And it’s just, it’s it, you, you just really have to be careful and like the feedback you’re getting, if it makes sense to what you’re trying to do with the book, then throw it back

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: I’m all for that, sometimes I’ll get like tons of feedback and I’m like, yes, all of this, like I have to put it all

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: But yeah, you just really have to trust your instincts and if. And if you’re not really feeling like it’s gonna serve the story and make it better, and sometimes you just gotta pick like a few big changes to make and see if that solves all the other

David Gwyn: Mm.

Marisa Walz: versus trying to like beat yourself up and get like every single little piece of

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: in there somehow.

’cause a lot of times it gets resolved through solving some of [00:13:00] the bigger issues through the through

David Gwyn: Yeah. No, that makes total sense. I, I love that feedback. For, for people who are listening, who are writing I think there is. I think they hear podcasts a lot. And I, I say this all the time, like, you gotta get feedback on your writing. ’cause if you’re not, you know, you don’t know how readers are reacting to things.

But I think there is a flip side to that, which is too much feedback because you’re not, you know, you can’t write a book that everybody loves, or you, you really will never write a book that’s, that’s quality at all. You can’t do it. You have to, you have to find the people that you value the feedback.

And that are, I think the way you put it is, is great. Like that they, you, you have a vision for how your story’s going, and if the feedback helps further that vision then you take it and you use it. And if it doesn’t, then that, that’s something you might have to let go. I think that’s really valuable feedback for, for people who are listening.

I’d love to talk a little bit about your experience as a, as a debut author. I think a lot of writers. Who are on who are, who aren’t agents yet think it’s like you get an agent and then it’s smooth sailing and it’s all gravy from there. [00:14:00] And I, and the, the writers that I’ve talked to, the authors that I’ve talked to, that’s not always the case.

So I’d love to just hear kind of, ’cause you’re so fresh and new on this po this side of, of the, the author journey. I mean, what’s maybe something that was surprising or most difficult from, from the time you signed with your agent to where you’re sitting here now with, with a debut?

Marisa Walz: Yeah, well those are two different answers. So I would say like the most surprising thing which is also, I think one of the best things that’s come out of this publishing journey I’ve been on is the people and how amazing and wonderful the publishing and writing communities are. When you’re an aspiring author, first of all, that’s an incredibly lonely time before you find your team and your people. And secondly, the narrative you see most often in the forums are things like, you know, how terrible publishers and editors and agents can be. And I’m not saying that there’s. Not some of that out there. But so far from my experience, literally every person I’ve worked with at St. Martin’s Press and at my agency and in [00:15:00] bookstores, et cetera has been so welcoming and helpful and just all around amazing that it has totally surpassed my expectations and hopes and dreams for what it would feel like to be a published author.

And similarly, the writing community is so amazing. I’ve made so many. Friends, just because the thing we have in common is like, we have the same editor, or we’re at the same agency, or we’re going to the same book conference or whatever. So the opportunities to form connections are just, they’re just so fantastic.

And, and that’s been really like the surprising, thing for me on this journey. And but on the flip side, I would say there’s also one of the most challenging surprises is, is book two. So let me preface this by saying that I used to roll my eyes at all those published writers in the online writing forums that would about how creatively challenging it was to write under contract. But now I get it. [00:16:00] It’s a great problem to have to have a second book that you already know is going to be

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: But even though it’s a great problem, it’s still a problem.

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: still a legit problem. I have suffered through some major. Performance anxiety with the second

David Gwyn: Hmm.

Marisa Walz: been a rollercoaster. Sent in like a few partials to my editor that she wasn’t feeling. Then I started to set out on this new concept and she liked that she liked those first 50 pages, so I turned it into a whole book. But she didn’t like the whole book and she, she was right. She was absolutely right. So I’m really thankful that I’m working with this particular editor and have her in my corner ’cause she’s got a great sense for what works and what doesn’t.

So

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: been talking about ways I could say. Been that book into something else. And so that’s what I’ve been working on right

David Gwyn: Hmm.

Marisa Walz: But yeah, I mean, it, it’s really challenging and you don’t wanna sound ungrateful for what you have, but at, at the same time, you know, writing a book for yourself and then [00:17:00] you know, you’re supposed to be writing. the books for yourself, but like, it’s easier said than done when you have a book under contract. And so, yeah, it has been a little creatively creative challenge for me with this book. But I’m finally at a place now where I’m like, okay, all the pain was worth it. I think I’ve got something now.

So I

David Gwyn: Nice.

Marisa Walz: out soon when I send it to my editor and we’ll see.

David Gwyn: Yeah, it’s awesome. You’re, you’re not alone. I think going from writing for yourself and then having to think a lot about audience. And that’s what the editor’s job is to a degree, is to think about your readers and to shift your mindset from one to many is, is is challenging. And I think editors too, they have a view of what they’re kind of looking for and they know what they’re, well, you know, they, they have a good sense for the market and what’s gonna sell.

And at the end of the day, publishing is a business. And so if you wanna, you know, if you wanna be part of that business, there is some give and take that I think is really challenging when you’re so used to writing. [00:18:00] Kind of alone. I mean, and you know, like you said, it’s a good problem to have, but it, but it’s still, it’s still a problem.

Marisa Walz: You can’t think of yourself as just an artist. You

David Gwyn: yeah.

Marisa Walz: a business person too if you want to succeed at your

David Gwyn: Yeah. For sure. So I, I’d love to have you talk just because I, I feel like we have this kind of full circle moment where you, you were on the podcast, you as a, as a querying writer and now I get to sit with you as a published author. What advice would you give to other writers who are still revising, querying, writing on that kind of side of the line and, and hoping to be where you are someday?

Marisa Walz: Yeah. I would say, and I know everybody says this, but it’s the number one piece of advice is persistence.

David Gwyn: Hmm.

Marisa Walz: you really want this, just never give up. I have wanted this since I was seven. I am now 43. Like just, can’t ever give up and I. If you, if this is something that you want really, really bad or something that you feel is like, I have always felt that this was inevitable.

I never knew. [00:19:00] When it was going to happen. But I’ve always had this sense that it’s going to happen.

David Gwyn: Hmm.

Marisa Walz: I’ve always been like crystal clear on this, if you don’t want it, really, really, I bad. I’m sure there’s some exceptions out there, like somebody had some connections or is just like absolutely brilliant and even though they don’t like have a deep passion for writing, they were able to. by and large, this is a. industry and on so many different levels, and you have to really, really want it really bad. And if you want it really, really, really bad, then it’ll happen for you as long as you know, you have like an, you have a good book

David Gwyn: Hmm.

Marisa Walz: and and if, you know, if you don’t have a good book, but like you still really want it. Then ju, you just gotta keep writing another book. When I set out to do this, I told myself I was gonna write one book just to see if I could do it. And I did. And then I was like, okay, now that I have the book, I’ll just put it out there and see if [00:20:00] I, you know, it’s about baby

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: It’s like all the classic, like all the classic

David Gwyn: Mm-hmm.

Marisa Walz: it’s classic for a

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: it actually works and you just have to put in the hard

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: And if, if you’re putting in as much work as I put into it, then eventually, even if you’re not like a naturally, terribly gifted writer, you’ll get better

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: there’s, there’s no way you can’t not get better if you write five novels, like maybe you’re still, know, not where you want to be, but you will continue to get better.

And so

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: it really, really just is about persistence.

David Gwyn: Yeah. I love that. I, I like to tell people publishing happens to people who don’t quit, and because it is, it’s like, it’s the only way to get there. No. So few people, I know we hear the story, but so few people write a, write their first book and get it published and it becomes a New York Times bestseller.

Like that just doesn’t happen. It happens exact. Like I and I talk to a lot of writers. It happens exactly like you’re saying [00:21:00] it. It’s the fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth book that finally gets them across the finish line as, as long as they don’t quit. And I, I love that message.

Marisa Walz: hear the word debut and they think it’s the first

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: It’s not it, it’s

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: it’s the first book you ever got

David Gwyn: Yeah. Yep.

Marisa Walz: I can almost guarantee it’s never the first book you

David Gwyn: Yeah.

Marisa Walz: everybody I’ve always talked to said like, oh, the fir like that’s in the drawer.

It’s never coming back out. Like.

David Gwyn: Yep. That’s how it always is. But well Marissa, this was so much fun. I, I’d love for you to just tell people if, if they’re looking for more information about you, where, where can they find you? Where can they look you up?

Marisa Walz: Yeah, so my website, marisawalz.com, walls with a z at the end is the best place because I have all my contact information out there into all my various social media, but also I’m probably social media wise, most active on Instagram, and my handle is Marisa Sea Walls. Because Marisa [00:22:00] Walz was actually already taken by me, and so I was trying to create a new

David Gwyn: Nice.

Marisa Walz: Yeah, that’s where, that’s where you can find

David Gwyn: That’s awesome. This is so much fun. If you’re listening to this, go pick up at the, the cover. I have to tell you. I was, I was lucky enough to get the advanced copy. The cover is insane. It’s so good.

Marisa Walz: it’s everything. Like I was worried that I would get a cover and be disappointed in it and like how, like I was already planning, like how can I give like the feedback like nicely and oh my God, I love

David Gwyn: Yeah. Phenomenal. Phenomenal. So if you’re listening, go pick this up. What a, what a great read. And Marisa, thanks so much for, for being here.

Marisa Walz: Thank you for having

David Gwyn: Great.

Marisa Walz: was a lot of

David Gwyn: Good.